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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6970638" data-attributes="member: 7006">Usually if I need an NPC that looks like a PC, I use the NPCs in the back of the Monster Manual and do various tweaks as needed (like change out spell arrays, or give it an additional class feature like Action Surge).&nbsp; If I want an NPC built using PC rules, I just build it.&nbsp; Then if needing to have a CR is really necessary, I look at the NPCs in the Monster Manual and find the one that most closely resembles it based upon function and the number of hit dice it has.But in truth, I don't bother with DCs of NPCs in the least.To give an enemy a DC means you are assuming it is a target for your PCs to kill, and you're trying to figure out just &quot;how hard&quot; a fight against it is going to be.&nbsp; However... when it comes to NPCs, I personally do not create/use them for the presumption they are nothing but another creature for the PCs to kill.&nbsp; That they are just &quot;fodder&quot; for the party.&nbsp; In fact, these NPCs are a part of the story.&nbsp; They are who they are.&nbsp; So I don't give a rat's ass what their &quot;DC&quot; is, because they are not there to be a target.&nbsp; They are there because they are what is right for the story.&nbsp; And thus... if the NPC is ostensibly the equivalent to like a CR18 creature, a CR way above what the PCs would normally want to go after... and the PCs attack that NPC anyway... well, too bad for them!Case in point:&nbsp; I'm running Curse of Strahd for two groups right now.&nbsp; And I'm using the &quot;buffed Strahd&quot; statblock that someone made for him (either here or perhaps the UA subreddit, I can't remember.)&nbsp; It's a DC 17 statblock, but I don't even care.&nbsp; Strahd is here and is as powerful as he needs to be for the story.&nbsp; If either of my groups attack him now (while they are all around 4th level)... oh well!&nbsp; Too bad!&nbsp; That's what happens sometimes!&nbsp; Sometimes you do something stupid and try and attack a much more powerful creature and you pay the price.&nbsp; And it's not my job as the DM to protect you from doing that stupid thing by only throwing creature in your way that you can handle.So to me, CR is mainly worthless... especially when it comes to NPCs as part of the campaign's story.&nbsp; Creatures and NPCs are what they are and I don't care how powerful they are in comparison to the party.&nbsp; Because whether or not you attack them is up to you and you have to faces the consequences.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 6970638, member: 7006"] Usually if I need an NPC that looks like a PC, I use the NPCs in the back of the Monster Manual and do various tweaks as needed (like change out spell arrays, or give it an additional class feature like Action Surge). If I want an NPC built using PC rules, I just build it. Then if needing to have a CR is really necessary, I look at the NPCs in the Monster Manual and find the one that most closely resembles it based upon function and the number of hit dice it has. But in truth, I don't bother with DCs of NPCs [I]in the least[/I]. To give an enemy a DC means you are assuming it is a target for your PCs to kill, and you're trying to figure out just "how hard" a fight against it is going to be. However... when it comes to NPCs, I personally do not create/use them for the presumption they are nothing but another creature for the PCs to kill. That they are just "fodder" for the party. In fact, these NPCs are a part of the story. They are who they are. So I don't give a rat's ass what their "DC" is, because they are not there to be a target. They are there because they are what is right for the story. And thus... if the NPC is ostensibly the equivalent to like a CR18 creature, a CR way above what the PCs would normally want to go after... and the PCs attack that NPC [I]anyway[/I]... well, too bad for them! Case in point: I'm running [I]Curse of Strahd[/I] for two groups right now. And I'm using the "buffed Strahd" statblock that someone made for him (either here or perhaps the UA subreddit, I can't remember.) It's a DC 17 statblock, but I don't even care. Strahd is here and is as powerful [I]as he needs to be[/I] for the story. If either of my groups attack him now (while they are all around 4th level)... oh well! Too bad! That's what happens sometimes! Sometimes you do something stupid and try and attack a much more powerful creature and you pay the price. And it's not my job as the DM to [I]protect you[/I] from doing that stupid thing by only throwing creature in your way that you can handle. So to me, CR is mainly worthless... especially when it comes to NPCs as part of the campaign's story. Creatures and NPCs are what they are and I don't care how powerful they are in comparison to the party. Because whether or not you attack them is up to you and you have to faces the consequences. [/QUOTE]

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