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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6124145" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>The other thing to remember when it comes to "innovation" is that sometimes the most innovating things don't actually <em>seem</em> that way, because they've appeared before in different context or a different game. So we're not seeing a "new" rule or mechanic per se... but its use in this latest game and when added to the other rules makes it far more innovative than we realize. And also remember that the longer we playtest a "new" mechanic and it becomes ingrained into the game... by the time the game actually gets published we will have forgotten that some of these rules were in fact "new" at one point.</p><p></p><p>Take for example Advantage/Disadvantage. This is for my money the most innovative and greatest rule they have added to the D&DN game. The problem is that it doesn't <em>seem</em> that way... because we already had a similar rule created in 4E with the Avenger's Oath of Enmity. But were we to ignore 4E for a moment and then envision a 3E game where suddenly this new rule comes out of nowhere, we'd possibly look at it with much wider eyes and think "man, this is one of the most innovative ideas to D&D I've ever seen!".</p><p></p><p>But since we did in fact have that interim step of a pseudo Advantage mechanic... the idea of rolling twice and take the higher result doesn't seem as big of an idea as I think it is-- especially in terms of binding accuracy. To me, this mechanic HUGE. It might just not seem that way. And that's only going to get worse in another year or two when the game gets released, and we will have playtested this mechanic for over two years. By that point, we all will have forgotten just how innovative it actually was.</p><p></p><p>It's the exact same way I feel towards the 3E Fortitude, Reflex and Will saving throws (as opposed to the old style Spells, Breath Weapon, Rod/Staff/Wand, Paralyzation/Petrification etc. etc. saves). That change to saves based upon ability score as opposed to just groups of similar effects I thought was a monumental innovation to the game. But it turned out that it was also so doofslap <em>obvious</em> of a positive change that we quickly forgot just how good of a change it was.</p><p></p><p>That's where the best innovation can be found... in those places that we internalize and adapt to so damned easily because it just feels so right. We have to just not forget those innovations after the fact when we stand back and start to complain about "there's nothing new!" After all... Martial Practices were innovative in 4E (Hey! Rituals for weapon using characters! That's never been done before!) and we saw pretty quickly just how unimportant and rather useless that innovation quickly became.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 6124145, member: 7006"] The other thing to remember when it comes to "innovation" is that sometimes the most innovating things don't actually [I]seem[/I] that way, because they've appeared before in different context or a different game. So we're not seeing a "new" rule or mechanic per se... but its use in this latest game and when added to the other rules makes it far more innovative than we realize. And also remember that the longer we playtest a "new" mechanic and it becomes ingrained into the game... by the time the game actually gets published we will have forgotten that some of these rules were in fact "new" at one point. Take for example Advantage/Disadvantage. This is for my money the most innovative and greatest rule they have added to the D&DN game. The problem is that it doesn't [I]seem[/I] that way... because we already had a similar rule created in 4E with the Avenger's Oath of Enmity. But were we to ignore 4E for a moment and then envision a 3E game where suddenly this new rule comes out of nowhere, we'd possibly look at it with much wider eyes and think "man, this is one of the most innovative ideas to D&D I've ever seen!". But since we did in fact have that interim step of a pseudo Advantage mechanic... the idea of rolling twice and take the higher result doesn't seem as big of an idea as I think it is-- especially in terms of binding accuracy. To me, this mechanic HUGE. It might just not seem that way. And that's only going to get worse in another year or two when the game gets released, and we will have playtested this mechanic for over two years. By that point, we all will have forgotten just how innovative it actually was. It's the exact same way I feel towards the 3E Fortitude, Reflex and Will saving throws (as opposed to the old style Spells, Breath Weapon, Rod/Staff/Wand, Paralyzation/Petrification etc. etc. saves). That change to saves based upon ability score as opposed to just groups of similar effects I thought was a monumental innovation to the game. But it turned out that it was also so doofslap [I]obvious[/I] of a positive change that we quickly forgot just how good of a change it was. That's where the best innovation can be found... in those places that we internalize and adapt to so damned easily because it just feels so right. We have to just not forget those innovations after the fact when we stand back and start to complain about "there's nothing new!" After all... Martial Practices were innovative in 4E (Hey! Rituals for weapon using characters! That's never been done before!) and we saw pretty quickly just how unimportant and rather useless that innovation quickly became. [/QUOTE]
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