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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3433067" data-attributes="member: 2011">That is one of the biggest problems.Some problems that really prevent image spells from being useful without special DM allowances are:1) The one you mentioned. Spellcraft is the bane of image spells being cast without Still Spell and Silent Spell metamagic and even then, someone could wonder if an illusion was cast. It makes image spells virtually worthless if cast during combat, especially for spell casters ("A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw.").2) Image spells have no tactile component. It is easy to discover that an illusionary wall is an illusion, just by touching it. The chance of detecting that it is an illusion is 100% because one cannot touch it. ("A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw."). Ditto for all other images like an image of an archer. Put an arrow through him or touch him and you have proof he isn't really there.3) Figments and patterns totally disappear to someone viewing them (i.e. they just see an outline), hence, the moment one discovers the illusionary wall is the moment he can see whatever is hidden behind it.4) One cannot really cast an illusion of summoning a creature since image spells are a standard action and summoning spells are one round casting time.5) Image spells do not state that they can be changed on the fly with the exception of language and movement. They can be moved (within their area), but they cannot appear and disappear via concentration. There are no image spells that state that they allow you to change the illusion so that it looks different (such as a halfling becoming a giant or a spell caster disappearing). Changing them might seem reasonable, but they do not actually state that they have this capability. Mistwell is adding that capability to Image spells in some of his examples.6) The rules on illusions are contradictory: "A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.)" and "Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells." and "A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline." Some illusions are mental and some are not, but both figments and patterns are treated as mental images (i.e. they are not real light and sound and can be seen through). Figments show an image that is not there, Glamers change something that is there, but the translucent rule is not the same for both. Why? It doesn't make sense.Illusions should be like holodeck images. They should be actual sound and light and force, not fake sound and light and force that can sometimes be ignored with enough willpower and sometimes not. If one makes the save, he should notice imperfections and know it is an illusion, but he should not just see through it.The higher level ones should also have tactile components so that a character can affect the illusion and it can affect him. An illusionary fighter should be able to do damage and be damaged.The fact that this list was put together shows the extreme lack of utility and lack of good rules mechanics of image spells (non-image illusions like Invisibility have plenty of utility). If the illusion rules (and specifically, the image spells) were better designed, people would come up with thousands of good uses for images, not dozens.For example, #29 in the list is literally by RAW not allowed which means that the image is known to be non-threatening and hence, known to be an image.PS. #8 is questionable. Technically, illusions have no tactile component and the target should know this immediately if he does not have a helmet on and it should at best be a free action to reach for the sack and have it disappear completely.#11 is not really doable. One can move an image, but one cannot (significantly) change it.#19 has extremely limited area (i.e. to get a decent range, it takes most of the 10 foot area effects and hence, a target could often be out of range by stepping 10 feet to the side, arrows disappearing is a big clue that it is an illusion).The Fighter cannot draw on an image as per #28 and the spell caster cannot make it change.</blockquote>

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