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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8920581" data-attributes="member: 18">I don't really agree. The 1E DMG may say that, and you can exclude it if you like, but the 2E DMG does not.And the lack of rules means that in general this stuff can be interpreted pretty broadly - for example, in combat, doing basically anything which "isn't in the rules" with an attack is just an attack at -4. It is definitely subject to the DM, but in reality that's true for virtually all games, including very modern ones, except where the DM is eliminated entirely (including 4E, where the DM could just refuse to use page 42, or use it extremely ungenerously). To my mind in 2E at least, you were pretty much encouraged to interpret spells creatively, and we absolutely did.Re: plot elements, I think that's a red herring in the context of creativity, because that's just saying "Either it's a narrative game, or it's not creative", which to me seems confused. If the DM doesn't let the plot change by player activity that's a problem, but the sandbox is an ancient tradition and the railroad is a later one.I don't think technically "asking" the DM makes the player creativity less, either. I'm not sure what your logic is there. We have to assume a reasonably cooperative DM. This is on the D&D forum, not the other RPGs forum, so ruling out all forms of D&D just seems a bit silly. I agree that other systems are better for this - Dungeon World is an obvious one, but I don't see 2E or 4E having a big problem here. Indeed one of the major reasons my group liked 4E so much was that it reminded them of 2E because they could say what crazy thing they wanted to do and then we could work it out. Whereas 3E if you worked it out, there was a rule for everything, and the end result was typically you had to make 3+ checks (often with severe penalties) to gain exactly ZERO benefit (or a very small one) apart from looking cool, whereas in 2E/4E one check, occasionally two sufficed, and usually let you do something you couldn't otherwise do within the rules, and 4E's table was particularly good.</blockquote>

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