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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8921184" data-attributes="member: 82106">But the GM is still absolutely sovereign over which combat maneuvers are even possible. There is also this sort of subtle supposition here that 'progress towards victory' is a thing and that any action which is likely to make that happen faster than, say, swinging your sword, should be penalized as some sort of compensation. The usual rhetoric being something about "why, the players will just always declare that action" followed by some statement about how 'unrealistic' that would be. This represents a specific mental construct within which thinking about the game in a 'D&D-like way' is bounded. Its VERY VERY restrictive. There may be fewer rules, per se, but the restrictiveness of the PROCESS OF PLAY is very high! I disagree about 'very modern ones', games like PbtA and FitD based systems don't do this AT ALL, nor do most BW based games AFAIK. In fact a game like Dungeon World absolutely doesn't allow the GM to outright deny a player the opportunity to make a move. They may indicate that the fictional position is not favorable, say by way of stating that such a move would open up a 'golden opportunity' for a GM hard move to come first, or that some additional fictional position might be needed (the famous "you cannot just hack the dragon with your sword" example). That does imply SOME responsibility for the GM to make fictional position mean SOMETHING, but its very different from how ANY version of D&D has ever done it, with 4e being a POSSIBLE exception (the way I play 4e for instance, but it is not the only way to approach its rules).No, there's a lot of different forms which creativity can take. There are more options than 'sandbox or railroad' in the world though.Well, yes, a GM can essentially alter the process of play in, say, 5e, and hew closer to a 'story game' kind of play. That is not how the game is intended to play though! 4e is distinct in all of D&D, IMHO, in actively encouraging this kind of almost PbtA-like play and removing the barriers to it, at least potentially. 2e, not really. I think it is pretty close to identical to 5e. Yes, both 2e and 5e have player creativity in terms of reacting within DM-prescribed limits to DM-supplied situations/challenges/fiction, but I find that a much narrower design space than many people here do.</blockquote>

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