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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8923844" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I don't know of any game that works even remotely like that. The vast majority of "story" games (at least the ones I'm familiar with) require that new actions either flow from the established fiction (so "we find a secret escape tunnel!" simply isn't something the player can just declare, it must fit with the established fiction) or arise from the established stakes or values (I don't know these as well so I am speaking somewhat obliquely.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>No "story" game I've ever heard of permits that. There's nothing special about them vs D&D in this regard. "Story" games aren't playground Let's Pretend where one player says "well I hit you for a MILLION damage" "oh yeah well you hit my BILLION SHIELD" "well now I'm using my INFINITY SWORD" "I block it with <em>my</em> INFINITY PLUS ONE SWORD" etc. You're talking about example games that <em>don't exist</em>, to the best of my knowledge. This makes the examples hard to take seriously, because they're so divorced from what actually playing "story" games is like.</p><p></p><p>It would be like describing D&D as being a game where you do nothing but roll 20-sided dice until you get 20 and then declare you've won for the evening. It has only the vaguest, most tangential similarity to actually playing D&D (rolling d20s; there's a reason <a href="https://www.artofmtg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Sword-of-Dungeons-Dragons-MtG-Art.jpg" target="_blank">icosahedra are used as symbols for D&D</a>), and the rest is <em>utterly unlike</em> actually playing D&D. In exactly the same way, it's simply wrong to characterize "story" games as games where "Player Z randomly says 'My character shoots out ten 100d100 lightning bolts!' And THAT is what happens" or as ones where "Player C just randomly says 'Oh we find a secret tunnel and get away!' [...] and that happens." Neither of those is any more like playing (for example) Dungeon World than "Well, I finally rolled 20, that's a wrap for tonight's session" is like playing D&D.</p><p></p><p></p><p>...it's literally achievable right now. That's what I've had with all but <em>one</em> player (who left the group within the first year of a now almost-five-year game.) All of us want everyone to have a good time. All of us care about being here. One other player has had <em>minor</em> issues with not giving it his all, and all it took was one adult conversation and some effort on my part to help him with his anxiety about certain kinds of play (this is his first TTRPG of any kind, so he isn't always confident with the RP side of things.)</p><p></p><p>You describe it as some sort of unattainable utopian goal, a pie-in-the-sky fantasy that practical people should ignore. It isn't. I experienced it literally just a few hours ago.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not a matter of being "so good and pure." It's...just a matter of being a respectful human who values the experiences and opinions of other humans. That's not rare. It's one of the prerequisites of <em>society</em>. If I had a player who genuinely didn't give two figs about anyone except herself, there is a good chance I would ask that player to leave the game. (That's not <em>super</em> far off from what happened with the one player who left early on, though the situation was more complicated than just "I'm a jerk who doesn't care about anyone but myself.") If I had a player who literally didn't care about <em>anything at all</em>, I wouldn't be asking them to <em>leave</em>, I would be asking why on earth they <em>stay</em> if they don't actually care--there are entertainments they could engage with that would be much more impactful than my game.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I have never met these players and I sincerely hope that I never do.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's...still caring about what others think, though. It's just <em>selfishly</em> caring about what others think--wanting others to bask in your glory or the like. But I've met plenty of people who genuinely want everyone at the table to have a good time. They think about things like, "Would roleplaying in this way upset someone else?" Or when treasure is found and it includes a fancy magic item, they consider both who could use it best and who hasn't gotten anything cool in a while. They may want an audience, but they want it because it will be something fun they have shared, not them basking in the glow of adoration.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8923844, member: 6790260"] I don't know of any game that works even remotely like that. The vast majority of "story" games (at least the ones I'm familiar with) require that new actions either flow from the established fiction (so "we find a secret escape tunnel!" simply isn't something the player can just declare, it must fit with the established fiction) or arise from the established stakes or values (I don't know these as well so I am speaking somewhat obliquely.) No "story" game I've ever heard of permits that. There's nothing special about them vs D&D in this regard. "Story" games aren't playground Let's Pretend where one player says "well I hit you for a MILLION damage" "oh yeah well you hit my BILLION SHIELD" "well now I'm using my INFINITY SWORD" "I block it with [I]my[/I] INFINITY PLUS ONE SWORD" etc. You're talking about example games that [I]don't exist[/I], to the best of my knowledge. This makes the examples hard to take seriously, because they're so divorced from what actually playing "story" games is like. It would be like describing D&D as being a game where you do nothing but roll 20-sided dice until you get 20 and then declare you've won for the evening. It has only the vaguest, most tangential similarity to actually playing D&D (rolling d20s; there's a reason [URL='https://www.artofmtg.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Sword-of-Dungeons-Dragons-MtG-Art.jpg']icosahedra are used as symbols for D&D[/URL]), and the rest is [I]utterly unlike[/I] actually playing D&D. In exactly the same way, it's simply wrong to characterize "story" games as games where "Player Z randomly says 'My character shoots out ten 100d100 lightning bolts!' And THAT is what happens" or as ones where "Player C just randomly says 'Oh we find a secret tunnel and get away!' [...] and that happens." Neither of those is any more like playing (for example) Dungeon World than "Well, I finally rolled 20, that's a wrap for tonight's session" is like playing D&D. ...it's literally achievable right now. That's what I've had with all but [I]one[/I] player (who left the group within the first year of a now almost-five-year game.) All of us want everyone to have a good time. All of us care about being here. One other player has had [I]minor[/I] issues with not giving it his all, and all it took was one adult conversation and some effort on my part to help him with his anxiety about certain kinds of play (this is his first TTRPG of any kind, so he isn't always confident with the RP side of things.) You describe it as some sort of unattainable utopian goal, a pie-in-the-sky fantasy that practical people should ignore. It isn't. I experienced it literally just a few hours ago. It's not a matter of being "so good and pure." It's...just a matter of being a respectful human who values the experiences and opinions of other humans. That's not rare. It's one of the prerequisites of [I]society[/I]. If I had a player who genuinely didn't give two figs about anyone except herself, there is a good chance I would ask that player to leave the game. (That's not [I]super[/I] far off from what happened with the one player who left early on, though the situation was more complicated than just "I'm a jerk who doesn't care about anyone but myself.") If I had a player who literally didn't care about [I]anything at all[/I], I wouldn't be asking them to [I]leave[/I], I would be asking why on earth they [I]stay[/I] if they don't actually care--there are entertainments they could engage with that would be much more impactful than my game. I have never met these players and I sincerely hope that I never do. That's...still caring about what others think, though. It's just [I]selfishly[/I] caring about what others think--wanting others to bask in your glory or the like. But I've met plenty of people who genuinely want everyone at the table to have a good time. They think about things like, "Would roleplaying in this way upset someone else?" Or when treasure is found and it includes a fancy magic item, they consider both who could use it best and who hasn't gotten anything cool in a while. They may want an audience, but they want it because it will be something fun they have shared, not them basking in the glow of adoration. [/QUOTE]
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