Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8928278" data-attributes="member: 42582">[USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] I am taking your &quot;love&quot; response to signal agreement with my interpretation of your post.Your post makes a strong claim!Can we refine it a bit? Eg consider the following proposition:In classic D&amp;D (OD&amp;D, AD&amp;D, Basic), if the play is in a tightly defined and circumscribed dungeon environment (where the map and key do the work of definition and circumscription) and if the MU/wizard is no higher than level N then [USER=16586]@Campbell[/USER]'s principle isn't violated.What value of N will make this proposition true?I want to say that if N is 6 or even 8 it's probably true. I think if N = 9 then having access to Teleport and Transmute Rock to Mud and Cloudkill makes it false.There's an argument that if N = 7 then Charm Monster and perhaps Dimension Door also make the proposition false, but within a tightly defined dungeon I think that's less obviously true.I don't know 3E or 5e well enough to try and conjecture possible values of N. I'm also not talking about wilderness adventuring, where the changed relationship between in-fiction recovery cycles (still roughly daily) and in-fiction challenge cycle (roughly daily) makes MUs/wizards broken; nor about urban adventuring, where the failure of definition and circumscription can make even 1st level Charm Person broken.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8928278, member: 42582"] [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] I am taking your "love" response to signal agreement with my interpretation of your post. Your post makes a strong claim! Can we refine it a bit? Eg consider the following proposition: [indent]In classic D&D (OD&D, AD&D, Basic), [i]if the play is in a tightly defined and circumscribed dungeon environment[/i] (where the map and key do the work of definition and circumscription) and [i]if the MU/wizard is no higher than level N[/i] then [USER=16586]@Campbell[/USER]'s principle isn't violated.[/indent] What value of N will make this proposition true? I want to say that if N is 6 or even 8 it's probably true. I think if N = 9 then having access to Teleport and Transmute Rock to Mud and Cloudkill makes it false. There's an argument that if N = 7 then Charm Monster and perhaps Dimension Door also make the proposition false, but within a tightly defined dungeon I think that's less obviously true. I don't know 3E or 5e well enough to try and conjecture possible values of N. I'm also not talking about wilderness adventuring, where the changed relationship between in-fiction recovery cycles (still roughly daily) and in-fiction challenge cycle (roughly daily) makes MUs/wizards broken; nor about urban adventuring, where the failure of definition and circumscription can make even 1st level Charm Person broken. [/QUOTE]

Verification