Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Creativity?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8929193" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>The number of Obstacles/Problem Areas might not scale with level but I posit the difficulty of each one very much does; meaning that where each O/PA at low level might only require zero or one spell from the caster (the rest of the party deals with the rest), each O/PA at high level might require two or three or even more spells; meaning spells then become just one more attrition-able resource similar to hit points etc., and for this model to work the game needs to throw more O/PAs at the party between rests than most parties (if they're wise) would want to allow.</p><p></p><p>This creates conflict between the game (and-or its DM) and the players/PCs, in that the game/DM is seeking an attrition-based model and the players/PCs are seeking to avoid just that. It's the 5-minute workday issue again, only approached from a different direction.</p><p></p><p>IME around level 11-ish the whole system kinda starts to fall apart, not just dungeon delves. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>I'd throw Clerics in here as well: by 12th-ish level they too can stand a whole lot of O/PAs on their ear with a single spell use.</p><p></p><p>Which, depending on one's long-term view of things, may not be all bad.</p><p></p><p>At very low levels the mages need the martials to keep them upright. At high levels the martials need the mages to keep them upright - the dependency has flipped around. It's a strange but IMO viable form of long-term balance, in which the zero-to-hero path is significantly steeper for one group of classes (casters) than the other (non-casters).</p><p></p><p>In part, perhaps, but I think you're ignoring one other major factor that helps martials keep up at least to some extent: gear and magic items. And here the DM can make a big difference (if s/he thinks it matters), by placing more martial-oriented treasure and less caster-oriented treasure.</p><p></p><p>On a broader scale, I'm not sure how easy it would be to fix this in a 0e-BX-1e-2e system while at the same time avoiding either a lot of power creep or a lot of nerfing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8929193, member: 29398"] The number of Obstacles/Problem Areas might not scale with level but I posit the difficulty of each one very much does; meaning that where each O/PA at low level might only require zero or one spell from the caster (the rest of the party deals with the rest), each O/PA at high level might require two or three or even more spells; meaning spells then become just one more attrition-able resource similar to hit points etc., and for this model to work the game needs to throw more O/PAs at the party between rests than most parties (if they're wise) would want to allow. This creates conflict between the game (and-or its DM) and the players/PCs, in that the game/DM is seeking an attrition-based model and the players/PCs are seeking to avoid just that. It's the 5-minute workday issue again, only approached from a different direction. IME around level 11-ish the whole system kinda starts to fall apart, not just dungeon delves. :) I'd throw Clerics in here as well: by 12th-ish level they too can stand a whole lot of O/PAs on their ear with a single spell use. Which, depending on one's long-term view of things, may not be all bad. At very low levels the mages need the martials to keep them upright. At high levels the martials need the mages to keep them upright - the dependency has flipped around. It's a strange but IMO viable form of long-term balance, in which the zero-to-hero path is significantly steeper for one group of classes (casters) than the other (non-casters). In part, perhaps, but I think you're ignoring one other major factor that helps martials keep up at least to some extent: gear and magic items. And here the DM can make a big difference (if s/he thinks it matters), by placing more martial-oriented treasure and less caster-oriented treasure. On a broader scale, I'm not sure how easy it would be to fix this in a 0e-BX-1e-2e system while at the same time avoiding either a lot of power creep or a lot of nerfing. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Creativity?
Top