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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8929731" data-attributes="member: 29398">In D&amp;D a Strength check would pretty much serve the same purpose; the underlying mechanics are similar.And nary a shred of magic to be seen.&nbsp; Very realistic.However, now and then the game does involve magic......which you seem to want to call a fig leaf.&nbsp; Yet engaging with a cell of force via a spell in the fiction is no different than engaging with a tapestry via some rope: the players-as-PCs are using the abilities and resources they have available to overcome a challenge.&nbsp; The force-cell is, and the Rope Trick becomes, a part of the shared fiction.It seems like you're saying (or strongly implying) that real engagement with the shared fiction can only occur if there's no magic involved; that my scenario would be &quot;purer&quot; had the means of escape been via the PCs somehow finding a way to physically dig their way out through the floor or ceiling using tools and ingenuity rather than via creative use of a spell.I disagree.&nbsp; Engagement, ingenuity, and creative thinking can and do happen whether there's spells involved or not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8929731, member: 29398"] In D&D a Strength check would pretty much serve the same purpose; the underlying mechanics are similar. And nary a shred of magic to be seen. Very realistic. However, now and then the game does involve magic... ...which you seem to want to call a fig leaf. Yet engaging with a cell of force via a spell in the fiction is no different than engaging with a tapestry via some rope: the players-as-PCs are using the abilities and resources they have available to overcome a challenge. The force-cell is, and the Rope Trick becomes, a part of the shared fiction. It seems like you're saying (or strongly implying) that real engagement with the shared fiction can only occur if there's no magic involved; that my scenario would be "purer" had the means of escape been via the PCs somehow finding a way to physically dig their way out through the floor or ceiling using tools and ingenuity rather than via creative use of a spell. I disagree. Engagement, ingenuity, and creative thinking can and do happen whether there's spells involved or not. [/QUOTE]

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