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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Crit and death saves mean automatic ability score damage - Too gritty?
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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7462125" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>Shadowrun is one of the well know examples of death spirals. Taking damage makes it harder to resist damage makes you take more damage (and start to suck in other ways) and if it continues, you die.</p><p></p><p>Death spirals just aren't fun to play. You get one character who has a few unlucky rolls and they are at a whole reduced level of survivability that makes them a lot less fun to play when it happens regularly.</p><p></p><p>Taking CON damage means less max HPs means more death saves means less CON mean less max HPs ... I hope the spiral is obvious.</p><p></p><p>I'm nto against longer term consequences, though D&D isn't the system I would use if I was trying to model them. But this type of solution isn't the way to go.</p><p></p><p>This leaves the PC fine for plenty of time, then starts penalizing the as those close to dying and make it easier to die. This is actually the exact opposite of what I want as a DM because it makes it hard to build tension - either you're fine or your in really deep ...mud with lasting penalities. I want easy ways to build tension, make you feel like you're dying quickly but have what seems like the last 10% really be just as long as the first 90% so I can push you hard and get you worried without the slightest variation of chance meanign I've actually killed you.</p><p></p><p>Okay, that's my main thrust. I'm going to go onto secondary thrusts, but if you are going to address anything talk about the above.</p><p></p><p>First, ability damage isn't very 5e in design nature. Refiguring your saves and ability checks is something the intentionally moved away from.</p><p></p><p>Second, front line melee characters are much more likely to get knocked down to 0 HPs just doing their normal contribution to the party dynamic. Something which happens just on that as a trigger unfairly targets them. AND since they are attacked more they also have a greater need for HPs so the result of CON loss also affects them out of line. Two fighters of the same level and same CON, but one standing in melee blocking attackers from the wizard and the other an archer will see a drastically different personal impact of that rule during the course of a campaign.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7462125, member: 20564"] Shadowrun is one of the well know examples of death spirals. Taking damage makes it harder to resist damage makes you take more damage (and start to suck in other ways) and if it continues, you die. Death spirals just aren't fun to play. You get one character who has a few unlucky rolls and they are at a whole reduced level of survivability that makes them a lot less fun to play when it happens regularly. Taking CON damage means less max HPs means more death saves means less CON mean less max HPs ... I hope the spiral is obvious. I'm nto against longer term consequences, though D&D isn't the system I would use if I was trying to model them. But this type of solution isn't the way to go. This leaves the PC fine for plenty of time, then starts penalizing the as those close to dying and make it easier to die. This is actually the exact opposite of what I want as a DM because it makes it hard to build tension - either you're fine or your in really deep ...mud with lasting penalities. I want easy ways to build tension, make you feel like you're dying quickly but have what seems like the last 10% really be just as long as the first 90% so I can push you hard and get you worried without the slightest variation of chance meanign I've actually killed you. Okay, that's my main thrust. I'm going to go onto secondary thrusts, but if you are going to address anything talk about the above. First, ability damage isn't very 5e in design nature. Refiguring your saves and ability checks is something the intentionally moved away from. Second, front line melee characters are much more likely to get knocked down to 0 HPs just doing their normal contribution to the party dynamic. Something which happens just on that as a trigger unfairly targets them. AND since they are attacked more they also have a greater need for HPs so the result of CON loss also affects them out of line. Two fighters of the same level and same CON, but one standing in melee blocking attackers from the wizard and the other an archer will see a drastically different personal impact of that rule during the course of a campaign. [/QUOTE]
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Crit and death saves mean automatic ability score damage - Too gritty?
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