Critical hit and fumble tables?

[tennyson]

Do you use them? Have you found any that enhance gameplay? I was just curious as to how elaborate other groups get with their natural 1's and 20's.

 

[Destil]

One bad thins about a critical fumble on a 0 is that they happen more often at high levels when you roll more dice, something that makes no sense at all. If you do use them the DMG suggested reflex save (DC 5) at least provides some way to keep things in check.

That said, I dislike tables as they bog down combat.

 

[Shalewind]

The big problem with these is the fact that fumbles become MORE likely as you increase in level. (not to mention the extra die rolling). For example:

1st level Joe has a 1 in 20 (5%) chance of rolling a natural 1. That means when he charges that orc coming into his farm he has a 5% chance of messing up bad.

Now let's look at Turgoth the Amazing, whom is a 20th level fighter and has four attacks in a round. He charges the Dragon of Doom and only has a 81.45% chance of NOT ROLLING a ONE. That's almost a 14% better chance of messing up then ol Joe.

If you throw in two weapon fighting and have six attacks, you have nearly a 1 in 4 chance of a critical fumble EVERY ROUND?!

Now. Obviously you could make a "fumble check" or some such every time you roll a one based on your level to kind of circumvent this silliness. But this involves 1) more die rolls, 2) the higher level people still have to check more often.

Now, despite these problems, I would like to see a neat system put into place. Anyone got anything?

Perhaps you'd need to roll a number of ones in a round based on your level or BAB? Of course this would make the chances of a fumble miniscule very quickly.

EDIT: DAMN! And Destil beats me by 2 minutes! ::takes hat off:: It's all that math really.

 

[tennyson]

Shalewind,

I agree with you, but on the same token critical threats are increased with more die rolls as well. However, you are correct in saying that it is not balanced in respect to the experience of the character. I guess one could make the arguement that the challenges will ineveitably get more difficult, ergo lowering the amount of error it takes to fumble.

Regardless, does anyone know of a way to keep the fumble/critical hit ratio balanced throughout leveling?

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Perhaps limit the fumbling to once per round, even if you roll more than one "1." The second or third "1" is just an automatic miss. This keeps the odds the same for the d20 roll. If you want to make more experienced combatants less likely to fumble, make them roll a Reflex save vs. the DC instead of a Dex check. The DC is 10 in the DMG, but you could change it to 15, making it much more likely for low level characters to fumble.

 

[0-hr]

I really like using fumble and critical charts.

Here are the ones I'm currently using.

 

[Shalewind]

Perhaps limit the fumbling to once per round, even if you roll more than one "1." The second or third "1" is just an automatic miss. This keeps the odds the same for the d20 roll.

Unfortunately, no it does not. The odds of rolls ANY natural 1, i.e. a fumble will increase with the number of attacks you get. If you are rolling more dice (more attacks) you are MORE likely to roll a natural one. It doesn't matter if susquent ones count or not, the chance actually fumbling will only increase with more dice.

If you want to make more experienced combatants less likely to fumble, make them roll a Reflex save vs. the DC instead of a Dex check. The DC is 10 in the DMG, but you could change it to 15, making it much more likely for low level characters to fumble.

This is much as I what I was suggesting, however... It adds another big complexity level to the combat.

I agree with you, but on the same token critical threats are increased with more die rolls as well.

I agree, and this should be taken into account. But I still disagree that a 20th level fighter should have a higher fumble rate than a 1st level one. Also, it should be noted that fumbles make combat at low levels even more deadly. As do critical effects.

Regardless, does anyone know of a way to keep the fumble/critical hit ratio balanced throughout leveling?

Again. That is the real question. I don't have a quick and easy fix. Except to make a companion roll with every round. But that seems very silly.

 

[wheeljack]

Granted neither campaign I am currently involved in has gotten to very high levels yet (around 6th in both)

But what we do is make a Fumble check , kind of like a crit check. ...here you roll tohit again to see if you really critted, if you crit again, the you roll tohit for an insta-kill

If you roll a 1, you roll another tohit roll, if u miss that you fumbled, if you make it you just missed and thats it.

Seems to work so far, and as you go up in levels your chances of missing that tohit roll should go down. A 1 on the second roll is not considered a failure, just a low roll.

Seems to work so far

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Unfortunately, no it does not. The odds of rolls ANY natural 1, i.e. a fumble will increase with the number of attacks you get. If you are rolling more dice (more attacks) you are MORE likely to roll a natural one. It doesn't matter if susquent ones count or not, the chance actually fumbling will only increase with more dice.

You're right of course. I was just posting off the top of my head. Perhaps this is why I don't use any Fumble variants.

 

[Shalewind]

Perhaps this is why I don't use any Fumble variants.

Agreed.