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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 8288276" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>I 100% agree that this is a great 'test' to see whether someone is likely to be having success at high levels - but not for the same reason you think it is a good test.</p><p></p><p>I've run a lot of high level games. Outside of anti-magic fields in very specific areas or around very specific creatures (beholders, etc...) I have not used that technique since the 1980s.</p><p></p><p>That is 100% absolutely the intent! They are there to negate challenges that plagued PCs at lower levels. That makes the PCs feel like they are advancing and becoming more powerful. You're describing the feature - not a bug.</p><p></p><p>High level challenges are different. This is a huge oversimplification, but they tend to be more 'macro' and less 'micro'. You're faced with broader goals. Many, but not all, DMs tend to veer into morality and existential questions - "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility". "Who Are You, What Do You Want, Why Are You Here?" At levels 1 to 4 you're worries about survival in day to day encounters. At levels 5 to 10 you're being a hero and starting to influence the world around you. At levels 11 and above you <em>are</em> the hero of the story. You're capable of doing amazing things, and need to be allowed to do those amazing things. This is the payoff! A DM that is trying to run Keep on the Borderlands for a 15th level party failed the group.</p><p></p><p>Let's read the center paragraph in the Level 11-16 section on page 37 of the DMG together.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you deny these magics to PCs, you're not playing the game that has been provided to you to play, but are instead trying to use your 3rd grade math book to teach Trigonometry.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 8288276, member: 2629"] I 100% agree that this is a great 'test' to see whether someone is likely to be having success at high levels - but not for the same reason you think it is a good test. I've run a lot of high level games. Outside of anti-magic fields in very specific areas or around very specific creatures (beholders, etc...) I have not used that technique since the 1980s. That is 100% absolutely the intent! They are there to negate challenges that plagued PCs at lower levels. That makes the PCs feel like they are advancing and becoming more powerful. You're describing the feature - not a bug. High level challenges are different. This is a huge oversimplification, but they tend to be more 'macro' and less 'micro'. You're faced with broader goals. Many, but not all, DMs tend to veer into morality and existential questions - "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility". "Who Are You, What Do You Want, Why Are You Here?" At levels 1 to 4 you're worries about survival in day to day encounters. At levels 5 to 10 you're being a hero and starting to influence the world around you. At levels 11 and above you [I]are[/I] the hero of the story. You're capable of doing amazing things, and need to be allowed to do those amazing things. This is the payoff! A DM that is trying to run Keep on the Borderlands for a 15th level party failed the group. Let's read the center paragraph in the Level 11-16 section on page 37 of the DMG together. If you deny these magics to PCs, you're not playing the game that has been provided to you to play, but are instead trying to use your 3rd grade math book to teach Trigonometry. [/QUOTE]
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