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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grayhawk" data-source="post: 1865677" data-attributes="member: 11288">Thanks for your input so far!I agree that +2/-2 may be better balanced in the way that it assures 1 less ability mod on your penalty stat and a plus 1 ability mod on your bonus stat. I disagree that changing this to +1/-1 is 'weakening all of the demihuman races'. If it's possible to place odd scores in both the effected stats, you may actually end up with just a bonus, in effect 'hiding' your penalty.Now, I'll propably have to mention that the '+1/-1' was meant for a stat genration system where you have no power over where your even/odd scores end up. As such, it won't be very open to any kind of abuse. Granted, somebody may have more luck than others with regards to how the bonus/penalty to their stats affect them, but luck has always been a factor in any kind of randomly determined stat generation. Going into any more detail would run the risk of sidetracking the thread, so for now I'll just agree that +2/-2 bonuses are better balanced for most stat generation methods. Anyway, whether it's '+1/-1' or '+2/-2' doesn't really matter when you're comparing the races against each other. Nor does it make the flavor of a race any different.I'm not saying that starting out with a stat of 20 is a problem. It's just something that I don't like, so I'm taking steps to prevent it. On the other end of the scale, no one is going to start out with a stat of 1 either. And let that be the last on the stat-thingy, unless someone wants to tell me how appalled they are by my switching of the dwarves' penalty from cha to dex  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Both of these are meant to work the same as in 3.5.I'd very much like to hear about any examples where a bonus to will saves is in violation with the presumed intention behind giving elves a bonus vs enchantment effects. (Aren't all saves vs enchantment will saves? And aren't the majority of will saves saves against enchantment effects?)Well, they do get lowlight vision to make up for how the can't freely choose a bonus feat like humans. Do the rest of you agree that they're still underpowered? If so, what's your favorite fix?Yup, no 'nomes in sight! (And no half-orcs either, at this time.)You, Sir, have excellent taste!I'm surprised no one has jumped on me yet for replacing the dwarves' dark vision with lowlight vision, but I'm guessing it'll happen any second now... *takes cover*</blockquote>

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