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<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 7877334" data-attributes="member: 6777737"><p>It does this because they feel like it has to. The game virtually stops scaling at about level 13. Your proficiency bonus is +5 and your prime attributes are 20.</p><p></p><p>I could see switching to fixed HP gains for a gritty style game. I'd like to try it at some point to see how it goes. Obviously, yes, combat suddenly gets extrordinarily dangerous at very high levels. I would consider that a feature of such a change.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nah, I disagree. I think subclasses are a perfect alternative to 2e's kits and 3e's prestige classes. They let you play the same class over and over with just enough modifications to feel unique.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The game is supposed to be simple. It intentionally forgoes complexity that adds significant depth of play in order to remain simple. 1e/2e did well because the system was virtually all that existed. 3e did well because it was actually a designed universal game system. 5e has done well because it's a simpler version of the best parts of 3e.</p><p></p><p>The game is also about preserving it's own legacy. I could see Warlock or Sorcerer getting the axe, but I can't imagine the game without Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger and Paladin.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We've literally never used inspiration.</p><p></p><p>I would prefer something like Savage World's bennies or 2d20 Conan's fortune instead, where players get use-it-or-lose points to use every game session. Imagine giving every player the Lucky feat, except they get 3 luck points every game session instead of every in-game day.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree. The game would be a significantly better game if the stats were: Brawn, Agility, Intellect, and Personality. Four saves would be better than six. Six is far too many. You don't have the Int vs Wis confusion, you don't run out of uses for Int and Str or have Con be only for HP, etc. I do think that Dex does too much, Con is too important, Int does too little, and Cha is overused in general.</p><p></p><p>However, D&D doesn't have that, and it's unrealistic to ever think that it will. We're stuck with Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con, Cha just as much as we're stuck with the d20 and 3-18 ability scores.</p><p></p><p>My criticisms:</p><p></p><p>1. I'm not a fan of a la carte multiclassing. I think it undermines the class system, and I think D&D is best as a strong class-based RPG. It's fine if you like modular or classless RPGs, but that's never going to be D&D. I think a la carte multiclassing encourages players to think about mechanics in lieu of narrative. It leads to the tail wagging the dog where the mechanics drive the character instead of the story. I understand why people like games that do that, but I don't think that it necessarily leads to a better roleplaying game experience. It doesn't help that I think most classes are largely mechanically terrible above level 10.</p><p></p><p>2. Most classes are largely mechanically terrible above level 10. 12 or 13, certainly. With the exception of high level spells, I just don't find that the abilities that you get above level 10 actually have an impact on play. Outside high level spellcasting a few feature or class outliers, there are no good abilities above level 13. The level 20 capstone abilities all district you from the fact that level 13 to 19 are total trash in essentially every class.</p><p></p><p>3. I am a fan of hybrid multiclassing. I like the idea of blending two classes together, I just want it to result in a holistic character rather than Johnny Fighter suddenly waking up with a spellbook or holy symbol and being something new. I have my own ideas what it would look like, but, unfortunately none of them are nearly as simple as a la carte multiclassing. I don't know what an official version would look like, but I'd like to see it. I understand that I am somewhat anachronistic in this position.</p><p></p><p>4. I don't like that there are classes that require short rests. Warlock, Fighter, and to a somewhat lesser degree Monk I have issues with. I think short rests are a great addition that add mid-day recovery, but I strongly oppose classes that require the players to short rest in order to meet their expected gameplay impact when the majority of classes don't do that. I think short rest classes poison the game with the 6-8 encounter benchmark, which spoils encounter difficulty and restricts adventure design. I don't like this tension as a DM that I need to nickel and dime my PCs with encounters so that they can short rest in order to keep the Fighter feeling relevant.</p><p></p><p>5. I think Concentration is too punitive. Specifically, I think losing a spell you're concentrating on when you take damage is much too punitive and means too many spells are simply not useful. I also think too many spells require concentration, and too many spells were not property thought about. Spells like Stoneskin and Mirror Image and Elemental Weapon make no sense to cast anymore. Most other spells already grant saves at the end of each turn. Maybe if Bless is too powerful at +1d4 and 1 minutes, you should change it to +1 or reduce the duration.</p><p></p><p>6. I think either too many magic items require attunement, or that attunement is too sticky (i.e., it takes to long to attune to items). Again, I understand the idea is to limit the power level of the PCs, but I don't think the method they chose to do it leads to the kind of fun emergent gameplay that really makes me love D&D. Like, I'm sorry, I don't think that a ring of jumping or a ring of feather falling really need to have attunement. All that needs to happen is that the effect only works while you wear the ring. I miss the ability to have utility items that you find early on and can just use. I miss being at higher level and just having items that almost never come up, but are cool when they do. And magic armor that grants resistance to fire really need attunement? It drives me nuts that that the XGtE common magic items do nothing relevant essentially ever. My workaround is that, usually around level 8 to 10, I ask the players what items they have and never use and I let some of them be non-attuned for higher level play.</p><p></p><p>Frankly, I would much rather the game make items that grant +X to attack/damage/saves/AC as attuned items, and then limit the PC to 1 or 2 of those tops. It's a trope of the game, but it's a boring design for what's supposed to be cool.</p><p></p><p>7. Warlock, in general, I think is poorly designed. I think eldritch blast is a poorly designed spell. I think it's intentionally overpowered because the class often has nothing else to do. That is, it's a crutch. I think Pact Magic is too narrow. I think the class, when combined with multiclassing, has significant design problems. The first 1-3 levels are very front-loaded comparatively, while the rest of the class has a sameness in actual play that is not appealing or beneficial to the game.</p><p></p><p>8. I find Sorcerer and Warlock to be too redundant for my taste. I think both classes could exist in the same game, but I think the two classes that we have are a bit too similar. I would rather replace one of them with Artifacer.</p><p></p><p>9. I think feats are generally poorly designed. I think they needed a lot more development time than they got. Unfortunately, I also think that they're the only thing that saves martial classes at high levels.</p><p></p><p>10. I'm not a fan of skill expertise as written. I would rather it were a flat +2. I am irritated by players wanting skill checks to be automatic successes at high level. I'm not interested in making players roll the dice when the outcome is a foregone conclusion. That's a waste of table time. Stop asking for that to be a mechanic!</p><p></p><p>11. Two weapon fighting should not require a bonus action to make the off hand attack.</p><p></p><p>12. Opportunity attacks should not require a reaction. WotC has made this mistake repeatedly where they try to make the martial classes have more play in combat, and they give them reactions. Except they're often movement reactions, or reactions that then mean you lose your opportunity attack. So the enemies just run away from you.</p><p></p><p>13. Surprise is needlessly complicated. For real, the surprise round was not that complicated. For how often surprise actually comes up, it's not worth being that fiddley about it.</p><p></p><p>14. The stealth and hiding rules should not say - in so many words - "Do what makes logical sense," and then the game gives out abilities that make no logical sense like Halfling Naturally Stealthy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 7877334, member: 6777737"] It does this because they feel like it has to. The game virtually stops scaling at about level 13. Your proficiency bonus is +5 and your prime attributes are 20. I could see switching to fixed HP gains for a gritty style game. I'd like to try it at some point to see how it goes. Obviously, yes, combat suddenly gets extrordinarily dangerous at very high levels. I would consider that a feature of such a change. Nah, I disagree. I think subclasses are a perfect alternative to 2e's kits and 3e's prestige classes. They let you play the same class over and over with just enough modifications to feel unique. The game is supposed to be simple. It intentionally forgoes complexity that adds significant depth of play in order to remain simple. 1e/2e did well because the system was virtually all that existed. 3e did well because it was actually a designed universal game system. 5e has done well because it's a simpler version of the best parts of 3e. The game is also about preserving it's own legacy. I could see Warlock or Sorcerer getting the axe, but I can't imagine the game without Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger and Paladin. We've literally never used inspiration. I would prefer something like Savage World's bennies or 2d20 Conan's fortune instead, where players get use-it-or-lose points to use every game session. Imagine giving every player the Lucky feat, except they get 3 luck points every game session instead of every in-game day. I agree. The game would be a significantly better game if the stats were: Brawn, Agility, Intellect, and Personality. Four saves would be better than six. Six is far too many. You don't have the Int vs Wis confusion, you don't run out of uses for Int and Str or have Con be only for HP, etc. I do think that Dex does too much, Con is too important, Int does too little, and Cha is overused in general. However, D&D doesn't have that, and it's unrealistic to ever think that it will. We're stuck with Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con, Cha just as much as we're stuck with the d20 and 3-18 ability scores. My criticisms: 1. I'm not a fan of a la carte multiclassing. I think it undermines the class system, and I think D&D is best as a strong class-based RPG. It's fine if you like modular or classless RPGs, but that's never going to be D&D. I think a la carte multiclassing encourages players to think about mechanics in lieu of narrative. It leads to the tail wagging the dog where the mechanics drive the character instead of the story. I understand why people like games that do that, but I don't think that it necessarily leads to a better roleplaying game experience. It doesn't help that I think most classes are largely mechanically terrible above level 10. 2. Most classes are largely mechanically terrible above level 10. 12 or 13, certainly. With the exception of high level spells, I just don't find that the abilities that you get above level 10 actually have an impact on play. Outside high level spellcasting a few feature or class outliers, there are no good abilities above level 13. The level 20 capstone abilities all district you from the fact that level 13 to 19 are total trash in essentially every class. 3. I am a fan of hybrid multiclassing. I like the idea of blending two classes together, I just want it to result in a holistic character rather than Johnny Fighter suddenly waking up with a spellbook or holy symbol and being something new. I have my own ideas what it would look like, but, unfortunately none of them are nearly as simple as a la carte multiclassing. I don't know what an official version would look like, but I'd like to see it. I understand that I am somewhat anachronistic in this position. 4. I don't like that there are classes that require short rests. Warlock, Fighter, and to a somewhat lesser degree Monk I have issues with. I think short rests are a great addition that add mid-day recovery, but I strongly oppose classes that require the players to short rest in order to meet their expected gameplay impact when the majority of classes don't do that. I think short rest classes poison the game with the 6-8 encounter benchmark, which spoils encounter difficulty and restricts adventure design. I don't like this tension as a DM that I need to nickel and dime my PCs with encounters so that they can short rest in order to keep the Fighter feeling relevant. 5. I think Concentration is too punitive. Specifically, I think losing a spell you're concentrating on when you take damage is much too punitive and means too many spells are simply not useful. I also think too many spells require concentration, and too many spells were not property thought about. Spells like Stoneskin and Mirror Image and Elemental Weapon make no sense to cast anymore. Most other spells already grant saves at the end of each turn. Maybe if Bless is too powerful at +1d4 and 1 minutes, you should change it to +1 or reduce the duration. 6. I think either too many magic items require attunement, or that attunement is too sticky (i.e., it takes to long to attune to items). Again, I understand the idea is to limit the power level of the PCs, but I don't think the method they chose to do it leads to the kind of fun emergent gameplay that really makes me love D&D. Like, I'm sorry, I don't think that a ring of jumping or a ring of feather falling really need to have attunement. All that needs to happen is that the effect only works while you wear the ring. I miss the ability to have utility items that you find early on and can just use. I miss being at higher level and just having items that almost never come up, but are cool when they do. And magic armor that grants resistance to fire really need attunement? It drives me nuts that that the XGtE common magic items do nothing relevant essentially ever. My workaround is that, usually around level 8 to 10, I ask the players what items they have and never use and I let some of them be non-attuned for higher level play. Frankly, I would much rather the game make items that grant +X to attack/damage/saves/AC as attuned items, and then limit the PC to 1 or 2 of those tops. It's a trope of the game, but it's a boring design for what's supposed to be cool. 7. Warlock, in general, I think is poorly designed. I think eldritch blast is a poorly designed spell. I think it's intentionally overpowered because the class often has nothing else to do. That is, it's a crutch. I think Pact Magic is too narrow. I think the class, when combined with multiclassing, has significant design problems. The first 1-3 levels are very front-loaded comparatively, while the rest of the class has a sameness in actual play that is not appealing or beneficial to the game. 8. I find Sorcerer and Warlock to be too redundant for my taste. I think both classes could exist in the same game, but I think the two classes that we have are a bit too similar. I would rather replace one of them with Artifacer. 9. I think feats are generally poorly designed. I think they needed a lot more development time than they got. Unfortunately, I also think that they're the only thing that saves martial classes at high levels. 10. I'm not a fan of skill expertise as written. I would rather it were a flat +2. I am irritated by players wanting skill checks to be automatic successes at high level. I'm not interested in making players roll the dice when the outcome is a foregone conclusion. That's a waste of table time. Stop asking for that to be a mechanic! 11. Two weapon fighting should not require a bonus action to make the off hand attack. 12. Opportunity attacks should not require a reaction. WotC has made this mistake repeatedly where they try to make the martial classes have more play in combat, and they give them reactions. Except they're often movement reactions, or reactions that then mean you lose your opportunity attack. So the enemies just run away from you. 13. Surprise is needlessly complicated. For real, the surprise round was not that complicated. For how often surprise actually comes up, it's not worth being that fiddley about it. 14. The stealth and hiding rules should not say - in so many words - "Do what makes logical sense," and then the game gives out abilities that make no logical sense like Halfling Naturally Stealthy. [/QUOTE]
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