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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Crossbows and dual-wielding
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<blockquote data-quote="Leatherhead" data-source="post: 6731617" data-attributes="member: 53176"><p>Let me tell you about crossbows in 5e. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f621.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":mad:" title="Mad :mad:" data-smilie="4"data-shortname=":mad:" /></p><p></p><p>First of all, crossbows are garbage for anyone who gets more than one attack per turn, unless you have augmenting rules that make up for it (such as the crossbow expert feat)</p><p></p><p>Secondly, because people were going out of their minds at the thought of people using two crossbows at once, a slew of things were trashed. Such as the sling + shield style, and the actual rapier + hand x-bow style that the feat was meant to encapsulate. Yes, people <em>knew</em> that crossbows + shields was technically superior, but nobody actually gave a damn about that so much as pseudo-gun-slinging imagery.</p><p></p><p>Thirdly, they didn't actually do anything other than remove the ability to use an ammunition weapon in one hand, and anything else in the other. The actual rate of fire and DPR of the feat is the same with one hand crossbow as it would be with two weapons, yes that means you can fire a single crossbow an absurd number of times in a single round (10, if you stack haste and class abilities with full attack actions) Heck, it isn't even triggered by the same mechanic that grants melee dual wielding, so it doesn't follow the same damage penalty rules. </p><p></p><p>As for your questions:</p><p>Yes, the tags on the weapons were clearly meant to mean something, specifically that rapier+hand crossbow style that Drow are famous for, but in the end they backed out of it and many things were hosed as collateral damage.</p><p></p><p>Two Weapon Melee fighting is considered to be a hot mess right now. The feats are known to be lacking compared to other feats. But at least the cost of entry is "free" at the lowest level, which counts for something if you are playing a Rogue who has advantage from flanking or something similar. This is one of the lesser reasons why people are dissatisfied with the Ranger (but the Beastmaster part is the majority of it)</p><p></p><p>There is no such thing as Two Weapon Ranged fighting. Not even thrown weapons work that way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Leatherhead, post: 6731617, member: 53176"] Let me tell you about crossbows in 5e. :mad: First of all, crossbows are garbage for anyone who gets more than one attack per turn, unless you have augmenting rules that make up for it (such as the crossbow expert feat) Secondly, because people were going out of their minds at the thought of people using two crossbows at once, a slew of things were trashed. Such as the sling + shield style, and the actual rapier + hand x-bow style that the feat was meant to encapsulate. Yes, people [I]knew[/I] that crossbows + shields was technically superior, but nobody actually gave a damn about that so much as pseudo-gun-slinging imagery. Thirdly, they didn't actually do anything other than remove the ability to use an ammunition weapon in one hand, and anything else in the other. The actual rate of fire and DPR of the feat is the same with one hand crossbow as it would be with two weapons, yes that means you can fire a single crossbow an absurd number of times in a single round (10, if you stack haste and class abilities with full attack actions) Heck, it isn't even triggered by the same mechanic that grants melee dual wielding, so it doesn't follow the same damage penalty rules. As for your questions: Yes, the tags on the weapons were clearly meant to mean something, specifically that rapier+hand crossbow style that Drow are famous for, but in the end they backed out of it and many things were hosed as collateral damage. Two Weapon Melee fighting is considered to be a hot mess right now. The feats are known to be lacking compared to other feats. But at least the cost of entry is "free" at the lowest level, which counts for something if you are playing a Rogue who has advantage from flanking or something similar. This is one of the lesser reasons why people are dissatisfied with the Ranger (but the Beastmaster part is the majority of it) There is no such thing as Two Weapon Ranged fighting. Not even thrown weapons work that way. [/QUOTE]
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