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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6734250" data-attributes="member: 12731">My comments added in bold /Zappit's a distinction made between the light crossbow, which is a simple weapon, and the heavy crossbow, which is a martial weapon. The difference between them is just about that (die and range are distinctive of the weapon type, not its name)Yes I know this. It's not that I don't understand it, it is I don't like it. A Light Hammer is "light". A crossbow that isn't "light" shouldn't have been called light. You explaining how it works is not a good excuse, it's actually completely beside the point. they are flagged as light because they're "small and easy to handle", contradistinction of a light 1 handed weapon No, the rulebook's actual description of the light property is "Light. A light weapon is small and easy to handle, making it ideal for use when fighting with two weapons."I think that statement speaks for itself. you must operate a 2 handed weapons with two hands, to carry or reloading it, 1 hand will sufficeAgain, you are responding a bit too literally. By answering like as if I don't understand the rules you come across as completely missing the point. (Not that it is easy to read nuance from internet posts, so that's okay.) yes it is precisely so.In previous editions, heavy crossbows had 1 extra round of loading time because you would have to put them down, take out a loader, cock the string, set the bolt, lock the crossbow again and *then* you would have been ready to shoot again. This was removed because it would have made no sense whatsoever.If you say so <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />It has nothing to do with the two weapon fighting style. "light" propriety allows you to use the weapon in TWF if it is a melee weapon. light ranged weapons are simply that: small and easy to handle.You keep saying that as if it could not be any other way. Do note that while YOU say this, the rules do not.I guess I have higher aspirations than you - I would have preferred it if there were no exceptions; that all light weapons could be used equally for the TWF rule...you can use and operate a hand crossbow with 1 hand, however you won't be able to reload it if you have both hands full, exception made by the shields, which are strapped on the forearm and require the "use" of the hand only for providing AC bonus (i.e. in the brief time you are loading, you don't benefit of your Shield AC bonus, thus if someone calls for a ready action against your reload, he could shoot you with increased hit chances). Mind that this is more of a RAI thing rather than a RAW thing, because the manual suggests you that the shield is carried in one hand, which is arguably not. Shields are carried strapped to the forearm and provide AC while wielded with one hand. The difference is that you don't need to sheathe the shield to do minor actions such as reloading and using an item which is ready to be used (e.g. contained in a bandoleer or a case or around your neck)Let's just say I find no good reason to be mindbogglingly super-detailed in some cases, and maddeningly inexact in others. Other than that I really don't have anything to say on shields. to better yourself at two "melee" weapon fighting. Now you're just pulling my leg.If you are a ranged fighter, you'd best go for archery, which provides you 2 extra damage per shot.Again you reply as if we didn't both have a complete understanding of the basics. Crossbow expert doesn't equal to two weapon fighting.1) it removes the loading propriety of a crossbow, meaning you are realistically reloading at the very instant you discharge your weapon2) you can shot at point blank without penalties3) you can shoot twice with the same hand crossbow in the same turn, provided you have a free hand or a shield.As you can see, it is not meant to be used while "dual wielding" crossbows rather than while using a hand xbow and a shield (or a free hand if your DM doesn't allow that RAI).As I see it, the end result is very much the same - just like a TWF:er, you become able to use your bonus action to do one extra attack. However, you don't need to take the Two Weapon Fighting style; freeing you to instead take Archery and STILL get your ability modifier (Dex) on damage for that extra attack. In the end analysis: you gain range but give up... nothing. This disadvantage is such for an untrained person. Properly trained artillery will still be effective in point blank.What is that supposed to mean? Are you again (over-)explaining or is this an attempt at justifying why? a level 20 fighter can discharge a weapon 3 times with an action, 3 times with an Action surge, and once with crossbow expert, the second round can use another action surge, thus other extra 7 bolts, and from the 3rd round on, he can only shoot 4 times per round.but we're speaking about a bloody level 20 fighter, which is recognized as someone who you don't wanna piss off, not even by chance.a more "down to earth" example is a level 5 fighter. She can discharge her hand crossbow twice per action and once per bonus action. A polearm master fighter can swing his halberd twice per action and once per bonus action (as d4 instead of d10), so we're speaking about a 10 feet long item weighting about 6lbs swung trice per 6 seconds... so? what's the big deal you're seeing here?In short: Don't say "this doesn't turn the weapon into a semiautomatic!" like Sage did I'd rather ask what are *you* thinking, there <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />I don't see any good reason why they had to invent a completely different way to shoot extra crossbow bolts when they could have used the perfectly good rules for two weapon fighting. Please stop assuming this is a thread on understanding the rules. This is a thread where I posit that the rules are unnecessarily sloppy and counterintuitive. Thank you.wait, wait. you're a bit confused here. Perhaps you're missing the point of the feats. Feats are "an array of perks" that better your performances. You are not compelled to benefit from the whole feat, but you clearly can, if you match all the criteria.If you normally couldn't shoot twice in a round due the loading propriety, now you can. You wanna shoot during a reaction? now you can. You wanna shoot during a bonus action? you can do that by yourself IF you have a hand crossbow, otherwise you must be entitled of a bonus action by other means, *but now you can* where normally you couldn't.You wanna increase your AC? hand crossbow and shield are the best way to do so! (if DM accepts RAI)I'm just gonna let that bit slide, since you're simply not having the same conversation I'm having. Sorry. the rules are solid, you're seeing them from the wrong perspective.O rly?Believe me or not, but ranged dual wield is even worse than melee dual wield. Being unable to reload your weapons prevents you do deal damage entirely, at least twf can hit for ridicolous damage :vSorry, what? No, really - that's a genuine question. Or rather, yes, obviously ranged dual wield is completely hosed by the rules, so obviously it sucks.The working alternative to melee dual wielding the rules gives us is the crossbow archer that uses a hand crossbow with the Archery style and Crosbow Expert feat. I say this has several advantages over melee but I can't find any disadvantages. TWF is a versatile combat style, which means that it can't compete against specialized fighting styles but can still perform properly whereas other stiles could fall short.It needs some love, yes, and perhaps it will receive it in an upcoming manual, but this has nothing to do with ranged combat, which is really awesome right now... if you can't see it, i'm sorry for you.Don't be sorry - I have quite obviously failed to make it clear to you that, yes, I do understand the rules, I just don't like how they are constructed.  </blockquote>

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