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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shoak1" data-source="post: 6689037" data-attributes="member: 54380">Balor = cupcakeWOW - this is the exact scenario I had w/my players just about; 6 PCs and 3 NPCs at L7 put a beat-down on a Balor.  It sparked a gigantic internal debate among my players and I, followed by problem solving to find what went wrong.  In our estimation, here are the relevant issues:1) Long rest=party wins vs anyone: Normally 9x L7s would be considered CR 12 (CR7 plus 5 extra PCs) and my PCs can normally handle guys 2 levels above (so CR 14 in this case), 6-8 times/day.  4 levels higher 4 boss encounters.  But in 5e, PCs seem to be able to handle about 6 levels higher if they got all their pills to pop, ie just after a long rest (which they had just had).  So in other words, in 5e I need CR 18 to challenge a party this size in a long-rest-preceded boss fight.2) MANY MM CRs are waaaay off CR rating of Balor 19?!?! He gets only 2 attacks/turn other than aura, doing only 36 dmg.  That means they are likely to be unable to 1-shot anyone.  So throw in 2x L3 healing spells on PC turns and the PC is good as new.  He basically has the damage output of a L10 PC.  And his AC (19) is preposterously equivalent to a L10 rogue.  Damage resistance vs non-magical weapons?[/B] really? useless vs. PCs past level 3-9 when they get magical weapons.Solutions we implemented:1) As a DM, I now try to find plausible ways of controlling rests so that featured battles aren't preceded by a long rest - or in some cases throw a dude 6 CRs higher at them if I plausibly encourage a long rest first.2)  Made Damage resistance for monsters effective vs non-magical weapons up to CR 4, vs all but +2/+3 weapons at CR 5-11, all but +3 weapons at CR 12-18, and all but legendary if CR 19+.  That way it means a PC or 2 might have an appropriate magic item, but not all.4)  Revised AC and attacks for dozens of MM creatures to actually be comparable to a PC of the same level, in some cases adding powers and in others adding legendary actions.My final Balor had AC 25 (not 19), has DR vs all but legendary weapons, gets 4 (not 2) attacks/round w/whip or longsword, and gets legendary actions (3/turn, telekenisis, summon dretches, teleport, 1/day firestorm).  Arguably roughly equivalent to a L19 PC, and legitimately fear/awe inspiring to a group of 9x L7 PC/NPCs.</blockquote>

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