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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quasqueton" data-source="post: 3799179" data-attributes="member: 3854">From "Design & Development" 8/27/07I know this is a month old, now, but it has bothered me ever since I first read it. It bothers me because apparently the designers don't understand the very rules they've written and are tinkering with.Actually, "according to the rules" (DMG page 49), a 1st-level party could expect to face a CR/EL 1 encounter only 50% of the time. Of the other half the time, 20% will be higher than CR/EL 1.An encounter equal to party level is considered "Challenging" -- "The average adventuring group should be able to handle four challenging encoutners before they run low on spells, hit points, and other resources."The D&D3 DMG says a TPK will "almost certainly" happen if the EL is 5+ over the party level. For a party of 1st-level PCs, that's EL6- 18+ goblins- 24+ kobolds- 12+ orcs or hobgoblins- 6+ gnollsFor a 1st-level party, EL2-5 is considered "Very Difficult" -- "One PC might very well die." That's not a TPK.- 4-12 goblins- 6-18 kobolds- 3-8 orcs or hobgoblins- 2-4 gnollsJudging from his earlier comments about party level and encounter level, I presume he means when the party is 4th-level, because 6 orcs is EL4 (by the book calculations). Um, how about putting better armor on the orcs? Instead of studded leather, how about chainmail or breastplate (2 points more AC)? Maybe add in another couple orcs for an EL5 encounter?So now the Cleave feat "puts to bed" every encounter with 4 goblins? Please. If that is true, maybe the feat is too powerful? Or maybe put an extra goblin or 2 in the encounter? No. Complain that "the rules" of D&D3 actually *prevent* you from making good encounters.To start with, both those adventures were designed for a party of double the size that D&D3 assumes. A party of eight 1st-level PCs can surely handle more than a party of four 1st-level PCs. Duh. Is the larger party twice as powerful? Three times? More?Keep on the Borderlands (for 8 PCs):Orc Lair 14 orcs = EL34 orcs = EL312 orcs = EL6Orc Lair 29 orcs = EL56 orcs = EL4Goblin Lair6 goblins = EL36 goblins = EL310 goblins = EL4Note that the eight-member party outnumbers over half these encounters. Eight D&D3 PCs could handle these encounters just as well as eight BD&D PCs could. (Probably even better, considering D&D3 PCs get max hit points at 1st level.)If you want encounters to have a number of opponents like what is found in the Caves of Chaos, accept that you are designing for double the number of PCs assumed in the D&D3 encounter level calculations.So, what are the designers going to do? Are they going to weaken the goblins and orcs? Are they going to strengthen PCs? Or are they going to design based on an assumption of 8 PCs instead of 4?This whole article just irked me, greatly. I'm not making any statement on 4th edition -- I don't have a care about it until it actually is released. I'm talking about D&D3, and how the designers know it. What bothers me about this article is that a D&D designer is so completely skewing the rules and facts. It's like he doesn't know or understand the rules of the game he's working with, and then he's misrepresenting things.Now, I'm not saying the CR/EL system is perfect. I just saying it doesn't say or do what the designer here is saying it says and does. I swear, reading that article was like reading a thread here on the forums: Supporting a point with misunderstandings and misrepresentations. I expect more from a WotC designer article.Quasqueton</blockquote>

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