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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bagpuss" data-source="post: 6724487" data-attributes="member: 3987">Okay Round 2.I mentioned at the end of my last post my feelings on the use of the heavily emotive "blackface play" phrase, I've included this sentence again because it leads into the next point about direct translation or pastiche.Mirriam-Webster Dictionary on pastiche[sblock]According to Mirriam-Webster Dictionary, a pastiche is something – such as a piece of writing or music – that imitates the style of someone or something else. For example, Stephen King’s short story “Jerusalem’s Lot ” is a pastiche of H.P. Lovecraft’s works, only better. Stephen Sondhheim has composed many tunes that function as pastiches of music originally composed in the 1920s and 1930s. A pastiche does not make the original a subject of ridicule, which would be a satire.[/sblock] I must say I've never heard "Direct Translation" used in that sense. To me direct translation, means a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literal_translation" target="_blank">literal translation</a>, where you convert something word for word from one language to another and sometime because of that it sounds weird or in the worse cases the meaning is lost or changed. Direct translation stays slavishly true to the source (hmm perhaps I shouldn't use 'slavishly' while we are talking social justice, lucky you've given a trigger warning earlier).What you are describing is Fictionalization to use Mirriam-Webster like you did, "to change (a true story) into fiction by changing or adding details". White Wolf's regional source books provide details for such places as New York City, Hong Kong and Berlin, but then add a load of stuff about vampires which clearly aren't real.I found that definition in Oxford not in M-W. Generally it is more commonly used to describe the study of beauty or designs intended to provide beauty. IE: I planted the tree there for aesthetic reasons. Still you seem to invent your own use for the word in use with RPGs as we see so what dictionaries use it for doesn't seem to matter.Why not just use "style" in that case? Why not just say Paizo's character has an Arabian style? <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=piazo+arabian+style&safe=strict&rlz=1C1EODB_enGB660GB660&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=683&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIs879ypKzyAIVQsAUCh1q3Q4c&dpr=1#safe=strict&tbm=isch&q=paizo+arabian+style" target="_blank">I assume we are talking about these sorts of characters</a>. I'm not sure they actually count as "cultural minorities" when they are actually in there own culture, Arabs aren't minorities in Arabic countries. "Minorities" seems another unnecessary use of an emotive term. Every culture has a style an aesthetic if you must, and in there own region they aren't a minority.That because they are borrowing the style, and applying it to a fictional world, they aren't necessarily wanting to take the whole culture. In the fictional world Islam doesn't exist so it would make no sense for the character to know anything about it anyway. Do we expect Western European styled knights to know all about Christianity, rather than following Tempus or some other fictional diety?RPGs [-]don't do[/-] very rarely do direct representations, for example none of White Wolf's stuff is a direct representation, they are all fictionalizations. They take some of the mythology or the style of a culture and use that to create a fictional world. The intention is to be a pastiche, that is the goal. They don't want to be an accurate encyclopedic representation of the real world. This is not a failure this is by design.They are both just borrowing a certain style, or myths, or folklore from new sources, usually because Western European style, myth and folklore have been done to death. This isn't cultural appropriation, this is artists finding different sources of inspiration. You need to stop talking like cultural appropriation applies to any and every borrowing from a different culture. The difference between blackface and Al-Qadim, isn't they are both wrong one being a Class C Felony the other a Misdemeanor, it's the difference between mainlining heroine and drinking coffee.Grumpy's bumper list of problematic RPG materials. [sblock]RPG examples of settings functioning as at least pastiches include;•    Mazteca from TSR for Meso-America,•    Al-Qadim from TSR for Persia, the Middle East and North Africa,•    Nyambe from Atlas Games for Africa,•    Kara-Tur from TSR for East Asia,•    Rokugan from Alderac Entertainment Group also for East Asia,•    Osirion in Pathfinder and from Piazo for ancient Egypt,•    Galt in Pathfinder and from Piazo for Revolutionary France,•    Chelix in Pathfinder and from Piazo for Colonial or Post-Reconquista Spain,•    Katapesh in Pathfinder and from Piazo for North Africa,•    Qadira in Pathfinder and from Piazo for Persia,•    Ganakagok, from an independent publisher, for Artic peoples,Examples of real world settings and even real world peoples, employed for role-playing games include;•    The Ravnos vampires from White Wolf Games for the Rom or Gypsies to use to more widely recognized term, though it is a pejorative,•    The Giovanni vampires from White Wolf Games for the Italians,•    The Followers of Set vampires from White Wolf Games for Egyptians,•    The Assamite vampires from White Wolf Games for Muslims,•    Masque of the Red Death from TSR and its representation of many places, including Eastern Europe,•    White Wolf and its representations of Mexico City and Eastern Europe as home to most of the puerile evil in the universe,•    The Dreamspeaker mages from White Wolf games for all the indigenous aboriginal magical forms ever and in their original incarnation this group formed a single cohesive and coherent tradition, •    The Akashic Brotherhood mages from White Wolf games for most of the Eastern Asian martials arts and philosophical traditions ever as a single cohesive and coherent tradition, •    The Euthanatos mages from White Wolf as a group of mages from southern Asian who more or less worship death and frequently act as serial killers,•    The Uktena and the Windego from White Wolf as Native America werewolves•    Gypsies, from White Wolf, which was a book about how the Rom people possesses actual magic,•    Going Native Warpath, from an independent publisher, which makes a mélange of most of the Native American and Pacific Islander peoples, •    Far West, also from an independent publisher, for most of the Chinese people and cultures while erasing Native Americans,[/sblock]You never go into if you think any of these cross the line (if there is a line) or if some are fine? You also seem to forget that the World of Darkness is fictional. The Gypsies in WoD aren't real world gypsies, and real world gypsies can't do magic. They might be inspired by real world gypsies, but clearly they are fictional. I don't have my books to hand but I'm pretty sure they have that <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_persons_fictitious_disclaimer" target="_blank">all persons fictitious disclaimer</a> you see in most works of fiction, just in case the person reading it doesn't know the difference.Have you actually watched the video? <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM" target="_blank">I suggest you do</a> and make up your own mind rather than listening to the constantly offended types. Twerking was one of several dance styles that appeared in the video, none of which Taylor Swift was any good at.Doesn't mean you have to listen to them. And I wonder how many ad clicks that earned her? To give you an idea of the level of idiocy she quotes Rapper Earl Sweatshirt's tweets about the video the first one reads."haven't watched the taylor swift video and I don't need to watch it to tell you that it's inherently offensive and ultimately harmful"Haven't watched it... okay. Then you have a link to another article about the online backlash, which has other great tweets like."why are white girls ballerinas and the ones that twerk black thats racist af"No mention of the modern dance section where they is a wide range of diversity, or the same with the breakdancers, and body-poppers, gymnasts, cheerleaders, band or all the dancers at the end. These people are just looking to get offended for the attention it brings them. People complain when Miley Cyrus twerks as cultural appropriation, then other people complain when only black women twerk in a Taylor Swift video because it is racist for only black women to be doing it. Do you see the problem?Actually intent counts for a lot, it could be the difference between accidental death and murder for example."mealy-mouthed" - means afraid to speak frankly. I wonder why that is in this current climate of outraged twitter and clickbait articles that are happy to call people racist, just because their dancers in 15 seconds of a 4 minute video don't match some diversity quota. Do you think Taylor Swift's intention in that video (you have watched it now I hope), was to instill prejudice, encourage racism? Or do you think perhaps it was to say well people are going hate no matter what you do, and the response to it is proof.Okay I think I might have to stretch to a part 3... we'll leave it there for now, one last thing though....[video=youtube;nfWlot6h_JM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM[/video]</blockquote>

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