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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 1256938" data-attributes="member: 9410">RebuttalActually, there were...  In the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide?Or alternately, users of Infravision take Blur penalties all the time?More like it generates a dazzle attack, followed by a "fog cloud" effect, which quickly rises (as hot air is wont to).No, easier.  Hot or cold, they stand out from the background temperature.  In the AD&D book with rules on this, they became "black".  As they rewarm, however, they would pass through "grey" and back to red-orange-yellow.  In a combat, it would be too quick to worry about missing, though... especially as rounds were one minute long, way back then!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Normal darkness doesn't prevent Infravision, and neither does the spell.  Of course, some Magic User would then just create Deeper Darkness, or somesuch to do the job...Almost the same answer as above...  Spell doesn't work on Infravision?  New spell (with half the duration at the same level, or one level higher) which also works Infravisually...Which cancels those blurry penalties quite nicely, eh?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />This (and below) depends.  Since the body's entire molecular structure is being reformed, anyway, the heat could be "done away with" at the same time.  The real question, to me, is: are the bodily processes stopped while Gaseous, Iron-Bodied, or "Stoned"?  Since creatures turned to stone certainly have theirs stopped, I'd say no, no heat while in these forms.  YMMV.No, because being able to see them by their heat IS making them easier to hit, already, turning a basically invisible PC into a basically visible one.  To "shine a light" on this question, if a Fighter in a field, on a sunny day, shines a bullseye lantern on his opponent, does he get a bonus to hit him?If Invisibility works by "bending light around you", then the area upon which you stand should vanish, too... breaking the spell by making it useless, as well ("Shoot above where the floor just disappeared!").  If it, instead, shows the area right behind the invisible, then that should be MUCH easier to spot (especially on a colored tile floor, for instance)!  If it works by absorbing the incident radiation, then, again, the temperature inside the area should rapidly heat up, until you're brewing in your own sauce... not to mention, you'd be BLACK!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />If it works by some extraplanar means, then your body - and its heat energy - are "out of phase" with the real world, the light from this one can't reach you (and you'd be blind to light), and your IR can't reach anyone who is NOT invisible, and they can't see you, either (but invisibles can see each other, ala Frodo and the Nazgul).So how can an invisible creature see?  The same way as an Astral or Ethereal one can, by "piercing the veil" between theirs and the Prime Material Plane.  (Just in case anyone was wondering!)  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Of course, with this explanation, you couldn't affect much of anything, while you're invisible...  Which might be a good thing!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />With the only explanation of invisibility that makes sense (to me, at least), none of these are a problem.  Heat can't be seen, because it isn't there, hence, it affects no objects.  Likewise, an inviso holding a torch now sheds light into whatever the "plane of invisibility" is, and not the PMP (Prime Material Plane).This also explains why you appear when you attack: you can't affect objects on the PMP while off it, just like Ghosts have to manifest to attack.  Improved Invisibility apparently allows you to manifest a doorway, and stab through it...If you're "living" iron, yes, since life generates heat.  Cold blooded ones do, just not above the "background" level, so can't be "seen" by it.  Undead and Constructs don't, either.  Ice Devils appear dark.  Most other creatures are "medium", but fiery ones are "high", and cold ones "low".  It's not that tough to figure out.If THAT'S true, the spell's nerfed!  Since it can't create anything, there's nothing there to reflect (and split) the light to make all those extra images!  Okay, so throw the spell out!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />  No?  Well then, if the visible light can be split and reflected, why not the IR?Since this is a whole passle of spells, I'll let them be...  If light can pass, IR can pass.  If lightning can't, fire-flame heat can't.  Heat Metal might, but not Fireball, etc.  That's a whole lot more than just IR!Same answers as above.Light passes through a Wall of Force?  Does Searing Light?  Can I use my Circlet of Blasting on'em?==========================I think Infravision could work, just fine, if it was put back into the system with the appropriate thought!  It had its problems for two reasons: 1) That thought wasn't taken prior to its introduction, and 2) Mixing real-world science with Myth & Magic tends to produce strange results, and untimately results in admitting "No, there's probably no way to make this work...  Nerf the spell!"!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Then again, I have no problem with Darkvision, either</blockquote>

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