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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9431249" data-attributes="member: 6801228">If only the hide action was broken when someone finds you, like it states directly in the rules, then the idea of a perception check spotting someone would be obviously intentional with the hide check. Like, directly stated in the rules and everything... oh wait.You can't declare you are going to hide from your internal demons, and expect the DM to allow you to roll a stealth check. If I was describing the party breaking camp in the morning and the player declared &quot;I want to HIDE!&quot; I would ask... why? And if they were saying &quot;because I want to and I can&quot;, well... I don't need to justify that with a roll. And any player doing so, is clearly trying to exploit me as the DM into letting them get away with something. But you can't hide from nothing. Simply as a logical action, you cannot do it. Just like you can't make an attack roll against your memories, you can't hide from the nothing. You are hiding with a purpose, you don't declare actions with no purpose. Therefore, a failed roll means you failed at that stated purpose for the check. This is like arguing that a player can roll performance checks for humming a song in their head. No one is doing this.The invisible condition against who? Invisibility is a state of not being seen, so who is not seeing you for your to be &quot;invisible? why would a player just declare they are trying to turn invisible for no reason, with no purpose, and no goal? Do your players often just demand to take actions that have no meaning or purpose, and I don't mean &quot;silly gags&quot; or something. I mean, does someone declare they want to roll athletics to lift... nothing? Do they attempt to use acrobatics to walk across... nothing? Do they use animal handling on... nothing? Yes, the Hide action is represented by a condition called &quot;invisible&quot; but its purpose is to HIDE FROM SOMETHING. That is why it breaks when you are found, ie, no longer hidden.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9431249, member: 6801228"] If only the hide action was broken when someone finds you, like it states directly in the rules, then the idea of a perception check spotting someone would be obviously intentional with the hide check. Like, directly stated in the rules and everything... oh wait. You can't declare you are going to hide from your internal demons, and expect the DM to allow you to roll a stealth check. If I was describing the party breaking camp in the morning and the player declared "I want to HIDE!" I would ask... why? And if they were saying "because I want to and I can", well... I don't need to justify that with a roll. And any player doing so, is clearly trying to exploit me as the DM into letting them get away with something. But you can't hide from nothing. Simply as a logical action, you cannot do it. Just like you can't make an attack roll against your memories, you can't hide from the nothing. You are hiding with a purpose, you don't declare actions with no purpose. Therefore, a failed roll means you failed at that stated purpose for the check. This is like arguing that a player can roll performance checks for humming a song in their head. No one is doing this. The invisible condition against who? Invisibility is a state of not being seen, so who is not seeing you for your to be "invisible? why would a player just declare they are trying to turn invisible for no reason, with no purpose, and no goal? Do your players often just demand to take actions that have no meaning or purpose, and I don't mean "silly gags" or something. I mean, does someone declare they want to roll athletics to lift... nothing? Do they attempt to use acrobatics to walk across... nothing? Do they use animal handling on... nothing? Yes, the Hide action is represented by a condition called "invisible" but its purpose is to HIDE FROM SOMETHING. That is why it breaks when you are found, ie, no longer hidden. [/QUOTE]

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