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<blockquote data-quote="Coredump" data-source="post: 6642023" data-attributes="member: 6939">This, boys and girls, is a textbook example of &quot;Lets Move the Goalposts&quot;I remind you, this was *NOT* my example. This was the &quot;proof&quot; that Celtavian provided to show us all how bad it can be.&nbsp; And now when it has been shown to be a sham....based on amazingly lousy and misleading &quot;math&quot;.... you want to pretend like it was never meant to show the 'real problem'&nbsp; I notice you never said anything when everyone was believing the hype......Second, the entire complaint revolved around taking out the BBEG in a nova attack.... how many AC 14 BBEGs do you come across at level 16?&nbsp;Of course it is 'easy'.... if you just make up arbitrary numbers and pass them off as &quot;math&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp; As I said earlier, I have never...never... seen anyone provide&nbsp; a situation that would lead to such numbers. I have created such situations, but it relies on all sorts of unlikely variables.But hey, if it is so &quot;easy&quot;....&nbsp; please help out all of us uninformed unwashed masses.....&nbsp; present away...He doesn't &quot;benefit&quot; the least, it makes him do *less* damage, it *reduces* what damage he can do. And that is with Advantage!But lets be clear.... Even against AC 14 (is that low enough for you?) and even assuming he still has Advantage... that still leads to less than a 10% damage boost.Celtavian: Look how bad it is, look I will prove itDaveDash: Yeah, see... that shows how bad it isCoredump: Um...that shows really really bad mathDave Dash: Well...those were stupid examples anywayCoredump: Um...Wut?&nbsp; Kinda convenient, no?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Coredump, post: 6642023, member: 6939"] This, boys and girls, is a textbook example of "Lets Move the Goalposts" I remind you, this was *NOT* my example. This was the "proof" that Celtavian provided to show us all how bad it can be. And now when it has been shown to be a sham....based on amazingly lousy and misleading "math".... you want to pretend like it was never meant to show the 'real problem' I notice you never said anything when everyone was believing the hype...... Second, the entire complaint revolved around taking out the BBEG in a nova attack.... how many AC 14 BBEGs do you come across at level 16? Of course it is 'easy'.... if you just make up arbitrary numbers and pass them off as "math". As I said earlier, I have never...never... seen anyone provide a situation that would lead to such numbers. I have created such situations, but it relies on all sorts of unlikely variables. But hey, if it is so "easy".... please help out all of us uninformed unwashed masses..... present away... He doesn't "benefit" the least, it makes him do *less* damage, it *reduces* what damage he can do. And that is with Advantage! But lets be clear.... Even against AC 14 (is that low enough for you?) and even assuming he still has Advantage... that still leads to less than a 10% damage boost. Celtavian: Look how bad it is, look I will prove it DaveDash: Yeah, see... that shows how bad it is Coredump: Um...that shows really really bad math Dave Dash: Well...those were stupid examples anyway Coredump: Um...Wut? Kinda convenient, no? [/QUOTE]

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