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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6642630" data-attributes="member: 22779">If your fighter is hitting on a 2-3 even after the -5 from GWF/SS without buffs, then something is seriously, seriously wrong.&nbsp; That would mean that your attack bonus would have to be 5 higher than the AC of the opponent.&nbsp; Even at AC 12, that means you'd need a +15 to hit without buffs.&nbsp; Possible, but, how many AC 12 opponents are you fighting when you've got a +15 base bonus?&nbsp; Heck, +5 from stat, +2 from Style, +5 from Proficiency, +2 from magic weapon is still only +14.&nbsp; Magic ammo I suppose, but, that's not an unlimited resource.&nbsp; And, so what if he kills three opponents in a round?&nbsp; If you're using such low level fodder at 15th level, there should be a bloody mountain of them.&nbsp; Even in a standard encounter.&nbsp; Meh, like I said, this is all about play style.&nbsp; The DM designs encounters where the SS has lots of room to manoeuvre and clear sight lines.&nbsp; Sheesh, use some light or lack thereof once in a while.&nbsp; Add a tree to three to the encounter.&nbsp; Fog or other vision limited effect.&nbsp; Water the plants and let it rain.&nbsp; There's a million and one ways to make this more interesting, even to groups that laser focus on aiding the fighters.&nbsp; I mean, heck, you mention you bless your own cleric.&nbsp; Does he never fail a concentration check?&nbsp; It's not like Clerics are proficient in Con saves, so, he's getting what, +4 (2 for Con, 2.5 for Bless) on Concentration saves.&nbsp; Hit him three times and Bless should go away.&nbsp; Never minding that simply killing the cleric makes Bless go away too.&nbsp; Why isn't the Cleric target number one?&nbsp; He's in the front lines and he's the reason that the fighter is the engine of destruction.&nbsp; Bless, when facing large mobs of weaker monsters such as in our example, should last maybe one round.&nbsp; Like I said, the plural of anecdote is not data.&nbsp; Your data only applies to your table.&nbsp; It's not universal.&nbsp; It might be similar to other tables who share your DMing and play style.&nbsp; But, that does not mean that the problem is systemic.&nbsp; It means that there are other people who play like you do, and face a similar problem.&nbsp; But, please stop dismissing those of us who don't play the way you do and are not having this problem.As I see it, you have two choices - either amend your play style such that the feat isn't an issue, or change the feat.&nbsp; But, again, remember, this is your issue.&nbsp; You can certainly offer advice to those who play in a similar fashion to you, but, always remember that that's what's going on.&nbsp; Trying to make this universal isn't going to work because there is a fairly significant portion of the base that simply does not have the issues that you have.&nbsp; Look at the numbers the poll.&nbsp; The largest segment, by almost 2:1 to any other choice, is that there is no systemic problem with these feats.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6642630, member: 22779"] If your fighter is hitting on a 2-3 even after the -5 from GWF/SS without buffs, then something is seriously, seriously wrong. That would mean that your attack bonus would have to be 5 higher than the AC of the opponent. Even at AC 12, that means you'd need a +15 to hit without buffs. Possible, but, how many AC 12 opponents are you fighting when you've got a +15 base bonus? Heck, +5 from stat, +2 from Style, +5 from Proficiency, +2 from magic weapon is still only +14. Magic ammo I suppose, but, that's not an unlimited resource. And, so what if he kills three opponents in a round? If you're using such low level fodder at 15th level, there should be a bloody mountain of them. Even in a standard encounter. Meh, like I said, this is all about play style. The DM designs encounters where the SS has lots of room to manoeuvre and clear sight lines. Sheesh, use some light or lack thereof once in a while. Add a tree to three to the encounter. Fog or other vision limited effect. Water the plants and let it rain. There's a million and one ways to make this more interesting, even to groups that laser focus on aiding the fighters. I mean, heck, you mention you bless your own cleric. Does he never fail a concentration check? It's not like Clerics are proficient in Con saves, so, he's getting what, +4 (2 for Con, 2.5 for Bless) on Concentration saves. Hit him three times and Bless should go away. Never minding that simply killing the cleric makes Bless go away too. Why isn't the Cleric target number one? He's in the front lines and he's the reason that the fighter is the engine of destruction. Bless, when facing large mobs of weaker monsters such as in our example, should last maybe one round. Like I said, the plural of anecdote is not data. Your data only applies to your table. It's not universal. It might be similar to other tables who share your DMing and play style. But, that does not mean that the problem is systemic. It means that there are other people who play like you do, and face a similar problem. But, please stop dismissing those of us who don't play the way you do and are not having this problem. As I see it, you have two choices - either amend your play style such that the feat isn't an issue, or change the feat. But, again, remember, this is your issue. You can certainly offer advice to those who play in a similar fashion to you, but, always remember that that's what's going on. Trying to make this universal isn't going to work because there is a fairly significant portion of the base that simply does not have the issues that you have. Look at the numbers the poll. The largest segment, by almost 2:1 to any other choice, is that there is no systemic problem with these feats. [/QUOTE]

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