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Message: <blockquote data-quote="spinozajack" data-source="post: 6642815" data-attributes="member: 6794198">The fact that feats make polearms strictly better in every possible way than dual wielders in every circumstance is not delusion. Which makes both the TWF style and the Dual Wielder feat trap options. (people take those options in order to do more damage and because it looks cool. The coolness is a lure towards a false promise of superior damage, but, > insert Admiral Ackbar admonition here).Neither is the fact that GWM allowing +10 on every attack of a heavy weapon, including reach weapons that allow you to have 1-2 extra attacks every round, making polerarms deal more damage than greatswords or greataxes.They designed the weapon damage table with relative damage written explicitly. Greataxes do 1d12. Greatswords do 2d6. Polearms do 1d10. How come, suddenly, the polearm guy jump up to getting 1d10 + 1d4 with +10 damage on each annnnnnd an extra AO with +10 as well?You might want to re-think your admonitions as to delusional thinking. These feats change the ordering of damage potential of these weapons in the weapon table in a dramatic way. Suddenly the 1d10 weapon is heads and shoulders above the 1d8 + mod / 1d8 + mod guy, the 1d8 + 2 + mod + 2 AC guy (S&B), the 1d12 +mod or 2d6 + mod guy.When they designed 5th edition they told us many times that they wouldn't give us trap options. But they have. If you imagine your barbarian uses two battle axes instead of a halberd, he is going to be doing less than 1/2 the damage. Go ahead, count the total number of possible attacks per round, count the stackable damage bonuses. The polearm master will have three different ways to trigger his 4th attack at level 5: an OA, a kill, or a crit. Given that kills should happen basically every round or two, and if it doesn't, maybe an OA will at the start of battle as the fronts converge. Crits happen a lot with raging barbarians or champions too, with 3+ attacks per round. All of those triggers are extra attacks that the Dual Wielder will never get. And even if they did, they won't get +10 damage to any of them, because GWM doesn't stack with DW, but does, with PM.The truth of 5th edition is this, if you want to be good at melee damage, no matter how you start out, you end up with a polearm in your hands. It could be at level 1, 4, or 8, or even 12, but eventually you will realize that your character is giving up one or two extra attacks with full mods, at reach, with +10 tacked on. And you will have no other damage feats to pick so you will pick it.This is why people debate these feats on the boards, because they don't want every single power build to end up the same. Given Wizard's reluctance to admit they screwed up with Polearm Master (and to a lesser extent GWM, allowing it to work with reach weapons since reach implies heavy), the way they will probably fix it is by adding a +10 damage feat to dual wielders, or maybe a new heavy weapon that's single-handed, like a Dwarven WarAxe? That would make DW viable again. But it's just a damage arms race at that point. In the current game, DW lost the damage arms race, horribly.But take away feats, and what happens? The fighting styles are all balanced, viable in their own ways, and in their proper order again.</blockquote>

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