Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Current take on GWM/SS
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Pickles III" data-source="post: 6643040" data-attributes="member: 6793942"><p>Huh why include attack bonuses <+2? (& that is marginal). You also ignore the damage bonus for the ability score which correlates very strongly with the attack bonus.</p><p></p><p>Really there are only a handful of interesting cases. (& close relatives of these)</p><p></p><p>1) a level Woodelf 4 Ranger with 16 dex wondering if he should take +2 Dex or Sharpshooter</p><p></p><p>2) the same at level 8 with 18 dex</p><p></p><p>3) A level 4 Dwarf Greatsword fighter with 16 STR wondering about taking +2 STR or Great Weapon Mastery</p><p></p><p>4) the same at level 6 with 18 STR</p><p></p><p>By my calculations the break even AC at above which ASI is better are </p><p>1)17 2)19 3)13 4)14 </p><p></p><p>So the archer should always take the Sharpshooter feat instead of the +2 DEX as AC 17 is high. This is exaggerated as the sharpshooter feat effectively increases his accuracy even more. </p><p>The GW fighter has a much closer call & should probably not bother with it until he has maxed out his STR. </p><p></p><p>This is of course in line with your assessment. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are errors in this table.</p><p></p><p>a) Level 8-12 presumably means 11-12 as you get a + prof at 9 & an other attack at 11.</p><p></p><p>b) There should be no difference between AC 11 12 & 13 for the longbow guy as he only misses on these if he rolls a 1 on the d20 (+10 AB, + 1 or more D4).</p><p></p><p>Crits work against your case as they increase both characters by the same absolute amount reducing the relative improvement. Not significantly but hey. </p><p></p><p>That said when I did the numbers I got the similar results ie "Power attack" gives very substantial increases in damage against the most likely ACs.</p><p></p><p>I was looking for a rule of thumb when to use it based on AC of my opponent & the answer was near enough always. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well most people do not play that high - based on the WotC survey. This may well change in 5e as it is very easy to level. I suspect though that higher level information was massively under-represented in the playtest data.</p><p></p><p>This whole disagreement is however about something that is probably not relevant to many people's games, as you point out. </p><p></p><p></p><p>In response to the OP - other I think I will just ban the combination of Sharpshooter & Crossbow Expert & of Great Weapon Master and Polearm Mastery.</p><p></p><p>I believe Sharpshooter is the most problematic as ranged has had all of its disadvantages cf melee taken away, including less damage, & retains all of its advantages - easy to apply damage & easy to focus fire & unanswered damage.</p><p>Historically, in earlier editions, shooting into melee or into cover has been an issue, which mirrors reality where archers have hardly ever been dominant. Probably the worst port from 4e <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> though one I was happy with in theory.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pickles III, post: 6643040, member: 6793942"] Huh why include attack bonuses <+2? (& that is marginal). You also ignore the damage bonus for the ability score which correlates very strongly with the attack bonus. Really there are only a handful of interesting cases. (& close relatives of these) 1) a level Woodelf 4 Ranger with 16 dex wondering if he should take +2 Dex or Sharpshooter 2) the same at level 8 with 18 dex 3) A level 4 Dwarf Greatsword fighter with 16 STR wondering about taking +2 STR or Great Weapon Mastery 4) the same at level 6 with 18 STR By my calculations the break even AC at above which ASI is better are 1)17 2)19 3)13 4)14 So the archer should always take the Sharpshooter feat instead of the +2 DEX as AC 17 is high. This is exaggerated as the sharpshooter feat effectively increases his accuracy even more. The GW fighter has a much closer call & should probably not bother with it until he has maxed out his STR. This is of course in line with your assessment. There are errors in this table. a) Level 8-12 presumably means 11-12 as you get a + prof at 9 & an other attack at 11. b) There should be no difference between AC 11 12 & 13 for the longbow guy as he only misses on these if he rolls a 1 on the d20 (+10 AB, + 1 or more D4). Crits work against your case as they increase both characters by the same absolute amount reducing the relative improvement. Not significantly but hey. That said when I did the numbers I got the similar results ie "Power attack" gives very substantial increases in damage against the most likely ACs. I was looking for a rule of thumb when to use it based on AC of my opponent & the answer was near enough always. Well most people do not play that high - based on the WotC survey. This may well change in 5e as it is very easy to level. I suspect though that higher level information was massively under-represented in the playtest data. This whole disagreement is however about something that is probably not relevant to many people's games, as you point out. In response to the OP - other I think I will just ban the combination of Sharpshooter & Crossbow Expert & of Great Weapon Master and Polearm Mastery. I believe Sharpshooter is the most problematic as ranged has had all of its disadvantages cf melee taken away, including less damage, & retains all of its advantages - easy to apply damage & easy to focus fire & unanswered damage. Historically, in earlier editions, shooting into melee or into cover has been an issue, which mirrors reality where archers have hardly ever been dominant. Probably the worst port from 4e :) though one I was happy with in theory. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Current take on GWM/SS
Top