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Current take on GWM/SS
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6662847" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Actually, it is the opposite of that. You made the claim, you need to provide the proof. Forcing your audience to provide the proof would be shifting the burden of proof.</p><p></p><p>The burden of proof is on people who believe in UFOs carry extraterrestrial visitors (i.e. those who make the claim), not the people who are skeptical of those claims.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In a nova round, no. Over the lifetime of a PC, yes.</p><p></p><p>Option 0 can start at level 1. Alternatively, it starts at level 4 for many PCs. It can be most rounds for most encounters without using up a single resource. Any PC can take it, it is not limited by class. In fact it can be nice for some classes like Elven Wizards who may want to be far away from foes and do not want to waste a cantrip on a damaging cantrip. The fact that it is in the same ballpark damage-wise as these other resource dependent options means that there may be a balance issue.</p><p></p><p>Over the lifetime of its use, option 0 will typically do more damage than your other examples ever will. Not so much for the -5/+10 aspect (which is a concern once spell synergies start), but just as much for the no disadvantage by range and the ignoring of cover. For a PC that hangs back, it's not uncommon for PCs or other NPCs to get in the way of a foe and in 5E, foes can easily move out, range attack, and then move back into cover. This is one of the few abilities in the game system that can negate that. If you have a 60% chance to hit a given foe and he takes cover, your odds go to 50%. The feat takes that back up to 60%, a 20% increase in DPR. This happens every time a foe is in normal cover. Going from 35% chance to hit with 3/4ths cover to 60% chance to hit increases DPR by 71%.</p><p></p><p>Now, the important thing that you are disregarding with your analysis is that the spell casters have limited spells. The sharpshooter PC can fire arrows until he runs out which at the levels you are indicating, he rarely does; and the cost is negligible at those levels.</p><p></p><p>#0 The primary purpose of Sharpshooter is not range, it's getting past cover and nova-ing for extra damage.</p><p></p><p>#1 Your 11th level Sorlock cannot have both the spell sniper feat and a Charisma of 20. So it is either range, or a bonus to hit. You added the Hex possibility for the Sorlock, but limited the Sharpshooter to an EK for the +1/+1. A Battlemaster Fighter, instead of an EK, could use Precision Attack to increase his DPR for a single attack by about 50% 5 times in an encounter against the Drow. He could use Distracting Strike to increase party DPR on his foe. A Hunter Ranger could use Hunter's Mark, Colossus Slayer, and shoot multiple foes (3, 4, 5, even more) within a 10 foot sphere. And I'm not sure which other spell you are using for your Sorlock. If he is doing Twin Eldritch and Quickened Eldritch, then it costs 3 sorcerer points. But since it costs sorcerer points for the Sorlock to do this level of damage, he is limited to the number of times per day he can do it. Granted, he can swap spells for sorcerer points, but that's resource costly. And he can gain a few extra sorcerer points by his two warlock spell slots, but that's a short rest each time he does it.</p><p></p><p>#2 While what you say is true about Animate Object, there are not necessarily 10 copper pieces or 10 other tiny objects in the vicinity of the NPCs. Often, the caster has to pull 10 copper pieces out of his own pouch. This means that unless the foes are within 30 feet of the spellcaster when he casts it (typically not for wizards at least since they try to stay away from foes), Animate Object might not work until the second round after casting. A single fireball or breath weapon or counterspell or dispel magic or 30 to 40+ damage to the spell caster (or even Hypnotic Pattern) will often take most or all of the animated copper pieces out. Additionally, this spell cannot be done before level 9 (lots of levels of Sharpshooter racking up extra damage) and even at level 9, it's once or twice per day class depending. Finally, if a player wants to be rolling 10 D20s and 10 D4s, that's going to slow the game down.</p><p></p><p>#3 It takes 2 rounds to get up to this level of damage.</p><p></p><p>I agree with you that at higher levels, spell casters can nova for more damage. But for round in, round out damage starting at level 4, the Sharpshooter does more damage in a campaign than +1/+1 (or most spell casters), and a lot more if buffed. Note: I think that GWM is more potent than Sharpshooter unless the GWM PC cannot get in range of targets. And I think that the only unbalancing thing about GWM and Sharpshooter is the -5/+10 portions getting used more than once per turn. It's not that hard to get bonuses to hit (like +2 Archery, +2.5 Bless, + Magic Weapon, etc.) to offset the -5.</p><p></p><p>Note: How exactly does the 11th level Sorlock get a Simulacrum? Simulacrum doubles the damage of any PC that gets one.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 6662847, member: 2011"] Actually, it is the opposite of that. You made the claim, you need to provide the proof. Forcing your audience to provide the proof would be shifting the burden of proof. The burden of proof is on people who believe in UFOs carry extraterrestrial visitors (i.e. those who make the claim), not the people who are skeptical of those claims. In a nova round, no. Over the lifetime of a PC, yes. Option 0 can start at level 1. Alternatively, it starts at level 4 for many PCs. It can be most rounds for most encounters without using up a single resource. Any PC can take it, it is not limited by class. In fact it can be nice for some classes like Elven Wizards who may want to be far away from foes and do not want to waste a cantrip on a damaging cantrip. The fact that it is in the same ballpark damage-wise as these other resource dependent options means that there may be a balance issue. Over the lifetime of its use, option 0 will typically do more damage than your other examples ever will. Not so much for the -5/+10 aspect (which is a concern once spell synergies start), but just as much for the no disadvantage by range and the ignoring of cover. For a PC that hangs back, it's not uncommon for PCs or other NPCs to get in the way of a foe and in 5E, foes can easily move out, range attack, and then move back into cover. This is one of the few abilities in the game system that can negate that. If you have a 60% chance to hit a given foe and he takes cover, your odds go to 50%. The feat takes that back up to 60%, a 20% increase in DPR. This happens every time a foe is in normal cover. Going from 35% chance to hit with 3/4ths cover to 60% chance to hit increases DPR by 71%. Now, the important thing that you are disregarding with your analysis is that the spell casters have limited spells. The sharpshooter PC can fire arrows until he runs out which at the levels you are indicating, he rarely does; and the cost is negligible at those levels. #0 The primary purpose of Sharpshooter is not range, it's getting past cover and nova-ing for extra damage. #1 Your 11th level Sorlock cannot have both the spell sniper feat and a Charisma of 20. So it is either range, or a bonus to hit. You added the Hex possibility for the Sorlock, but limited the Sharpshooter to an EK for the +1/+1. A Battlemaster Fighter, instead of an EK, could use Precision Attack to increase his DPR for a single attack by about 50% 5 times in an encounter against the Drow. He could use Distracting Strike to increase party DPR on his foe. A Hunter Ranger could use Hunter's Mark, Colossus Slayer, and shoot multiple foes (3, 4, 5, even more) within a 10 foot sphere. And I'm not sure which other spell you are using for your Sorlock. If he is doing Twin Eldritch and Quickened Eldritch, then it costs 3 sorcerer points. But since it costs sorcerer points for the Sorlock to do this level of damage, he is limited to the number of times per day he can do it. Granted, he can swap spells for sorcerer points, but that's resource costly. And he can gain a few extra sorcerer points by his two warlock spell slots, but that's a short rest each time he does it. #2 While what you say is true about Animate Object, there are not necessarily 10 copper pieces or 10 other tiny objects in the vicinity of the NPCs. Often, the caster has to pull 10 copper pieces out of his own pouch. This means that unless the foes are within 30 feet of the spellcaster when he casts it (typically not for wizards at least since they try to stay away from foes), Animate Object might not work until the second round after casting. A single fireball or breath weapon or counterspell or dispel magic or 30 to 40+ damage to the spell caster (or even Hypnotic Pattern) will often take most or all of the animated copper pieces out. Additionally, this spell cannot be done before level 9 (lots of levels of Sharpshooter racking up extra damage) and even at level 9, it's once or twice per day class depending. Finally, if a player wants to be rolling 10 D20s and 10 D4s, that's going to slow the game down. #3 It takes 2 rounds to get up to this level of damage. I agree with you that at higher levels, spell casters can nova for more damage. But for round in, round out damage starting at level 4, the Sharpshooter does more damage in a campaign than +1/+1 (or most spell casters), and a lot more if buffed. Note: I think that GWM is more potent than Sharpshooter unless the GWM PC cannot get in range of targets. And I think that the only unbalancing thing about GWM and Sharpshooter is the -5/+10 portions getting used more than once per turn. It's not that hard to get bonuses to hit (like +2 Archery, +2.5 Bless, + Magic Weapon, etc.) to offset the -5. Note: How exactly does the 11th level Sorlock get a Simulacrum? Simulacrum doubles the damage of any PC that gets one. [/QUOTE]
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