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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6662882" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>I claimed no such thing. I claimed (and you quoted):</p><p></p><p>"5E is fairly well balanced. These two feats are not (IMO). You are making an assumption here that the DMs who feel that these feats (combined with other obvious spells and such) are overpowered will feel that other combos are overpowered. That may or may not be true. I only have a handful of houserules since I see few problems in 5E."</p><p></p><p>So, you responded to my post with your list of "other potent options" without carefully reading what I wrote. I didn't say other potent options did not exist, especially ones that use up resources like spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Is it? From a roleplaying perspective? From a fun to play perspective?</p><p></p><p>Not every player wants to spam offensive cantrips.</p><p></p><p>A High Elven Wizard can start at first level with 16 Dex, 16 Int, and Longbow proficiency.</p><p></p><p>He does D8+3 damage at 120 feet, 2 more points of damage than Firebolt. At level 4, he learns Sharpshooter and does longbow at 600 feet through non-total cover. His Firebolt spell would still have cover penalties, sometimes from fellow PCs. At level 5, he learns Fly and within a few rounds, he can be out of non-disadvantaged missile range (and most spells) for most outdoor encounters, but still be able to attack back at the cost of a single spell.</p><p></p><p>When his party assists like with Faerie Fire, he can let loose with the extra 10 points of damage. Alternatively, he could cast Haste on himself and get two Bow shots in per round and be doing similar (and often better) damage to Fire Bolt, all the way up to level 16.</p><p></p><p>Such a PC would have Darkvision, good bonuses to Stealth, Dex saves, Init, and AC. And Sharpshooter is even better if using the optional DMG hitting cover rule (which our table uses a modified version of).</p><p></p><p>The build is designed to be fun to play, not the be all end all Int Wizard. In fact, I could see a given player wanting to use the -5/+10 feature a lot to help take out mooks without casting spells. Sure, he'll miss sometimes at -5, but maybe this player doesn't want Firebolt and wants to take Shocking Grasp or Ray of Frost as his offensive cantrip (or no offensive cantrips at all). In such a case, he'll often average more DPR with the bow up to level 16 than he would with his cantrip against low AC foes (high AC foes deserve normal spells).</p><p></p><p>Will he be as good as an Archer with Sharpshooter? Not with arrows. But, he'll have fun and he will still have spells to back his archery up. And, he'll do similar amounts of weapon damage to PCs like melee Clerics or Lore Bards.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Not everything is about minmaxing a PC.</p><p></p><p>Edit: Forgot to mention. Minor Illusion of thick heavy bushes and the Wizard can fire -5/+10 with advantage through it. Very few foes will take out an action to potentially discern that it is an illusion. The difference here, though, is that the 18 Int 5th level Firebolt Wizard using the same trick hits AC 12 on a 2 instead of a 5 (11 DPR), the Sharpshooter -5/+10 16 Int wizard hits AC 12 on 6 instead of 11 (13+ DPR). And, of course, Magic Weapon can take care of piercing resistant monsters, very few things can help a Firebolt against a fire resistant monster.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 6662882, member: 2011"] I claimed no such thing. I claimed (and you quoted): "5E is fairly well balanced. These two feats are not (IMO). You are making an assumption here that the DMs who feel that these feats (combined with other obvious spells and such) are overpowered will feel that other combos are overpowered. That may or may not be true. I only have a handful of houserules since I see few problems in 5E." So, you responded to my post with your list of "other potent options" without carefully reading what I wrote. I didn't say other potent options did not exist, especially ones that use up resources like spells. Is it? From a roleplaying perspective? From a fun to play perspective? Not every player wants to spam offensive cantrips. A High Elven Wizard can start at first level with 16 Dex, 16 Int, and Longbow proficiency. He does D8+3 damage at 120 feet, 2 more points of damage than Firebolt. At level 4, he learns Sharpshooter and does longbow at 600 feet through non-total cover. His Firebolt spell would still have cover penalties, sometimes from fellow PCs. At level 5, he learns Fly and within a few rounds, he can be out of non-disadvantaged missile range (and most spells) for most outdoor encounters, but still be able to attack back at the cost of a single spell. When his party assists like with Faerie Fire, he can let loose with the extra 10 points of damage. Alternatively, he could cast Haste on himself and get two Bow shots in per round and be doing similar (and often better) damage to Fire Bolt, all the way up to level 16. Such a PC would have Darkvision, good bonuses to Stealth, Dex saves, Init, and AC. And Sharpshooter is even better if using the optional DMG hitting cover rule (which our table uses a modified version of). The build is designed to be fun to play, not the be all end all Int Wizard. In fact, I could see a given player wanting to use the -5/+10 feature a lot to help take out mooks without casting spells. Sure, he'll miss sometimes at -5, but maybe this player doesn't want Firebolt and wants to take Shocking Grasp or Ray of Frost as his offensive cantrip (or no offensive cantrips at all). In such a case, he'll often average more DPR with the bow up to level 16 than he would with his cantrip against low AC foes (high AC foes deserve normal spells). Will he be as good as an Archer with Sharpshooter? Not with arrows. But, he'll have fun and he will still have spells to back his archery up. And, he'll do similar amounts of weapon damage to PCs like melee Clerics or Lore Bards. Not everything is about minmaxing a PC. Edit: Forgot to mention. Minor Illusion of thick heavy bushes and the Wizard can fire -5/+10 with advantage through it. Very few foes will take out an action to potentially discern that it is an illusion. The difference here, though, is that the 18 Int 5th level Firebolt Wizard using the same trick hits AC 12 on a 2 instead of a 5 (11 DPR), the Sharpshooter -5/+10 16 Int wizard hits AC 12 on 6 instead of 11 (13+ DPR). And, of course, Magic Weapon can take care of piercing resistant monsters, very few things can help a Firebolt against a fire resistant monster. [/QUOTE]
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