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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DarkMaster" data-source="post: 1429155" data-attributes="member: 16362">I don't agree with that, I know a few people with a very strong outside personality that can be devasted with a few negative remarks, or that can crash easily on peer pressure. Take typical high schoolers, Some of them are highly charismatic everybody knows them, they have a lot of influence on other but as soon as somebody tell them that they don't have the guts to do the most stupid thing, they do it. Or the example of the girl that everybody likes, very succesfull, but some stranger tell her that she is not pretty and her entire world collapse. Charisma is how the other perceive you, not how you perceive yourself. The fact that you can sell anything to anybody has nothing to do with your mental resistance. I know a few people who have no personal hability and probably go unotice all the time, but don't try to make them change their mind or influence them towards bad behavior, they know what is good for them and stick with it. Notice that sense motive skill uses wisdom, and that sense motive opposes bluff. You get the picture.Edit: Also look at the POW I am pretty sure that there is no correllation between the fact that everybody in the units likes or fear you and your resistance to mental torture.As for the initiative thing I could consider it, but DEX definitivaly needs to be included. Otherwise I would not be able to explain the 18DEX character how the 3DEX enemie was able to draw it's weapon faster than him.Edit SRD:Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundingsThat includes resisting effect that could distord your perception of your surronding like illusion and charm. Basically everything under the will saveEdit: The other thing I can't understand is how you explain that it is now easier to convice towards the wrong path a good priest with 20 Wis 10 CHA, then the good Sorcerer with 10 WIS, 20CHA. The sorcerer is an extremely imposing character granted, but he doesn't have strong conviction about the world surronding him, the gods, his own way of life. The cleric on the other aspect is not a particularly noticable character but he has strong conviction about world, the gods, his own way of life. He knows he is right and a very few people could convince him otherwise (In D&D term, bluff, charmed, Illusion). Does he needs to be a noticable person for that. Don't think so.</blockquote>

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