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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Delemental" data-source="post: 4206752" data-attributes="member: 5203">At the risk of initiating another debate on the auto fail issue (there's enough of that going on in the excerpt thread, in between arguments about Intimidate), perhaps instead of saying that the use of a skill is an 'Instant failure', perhaps it would work better for you as  - There's a difference between 'Auto fail' and 'Can't gain a success' - the skill still doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt, either.  It's also more specific in stating that only that particular use of the skill is restricted, and it gives the player an out to realize that their tactic isn't working.  It also preserves some of the 'trap' aspect of the original challenge, but makes it more of a specific unintended consequence which builds upon the existing failure result (and could even be seen as a bonus, since the giants won't try to kill the backflipping character...).I can see why some have a problem with saying a particular skill will automatically fail.  I do think its reasonable to note that some skills may be less effective in certain circumstances, and may have unexpected results.  I'd have a hard time figuring out how Streetwise could be applied to the giant encounter, for example.As far as the concern over allowing anyone to participate in a challenge, my impression is that the Primary skills listed are meant to be a list of the skills most likely to be used, not an exclusive list of 'approved' skills.  I'd have no problem with allowing that History check if the player had good justification ("I recount the glories of the Giant Wars in order to get on the jarl's good side").  But I also don't think that every skill challenge should be forced to accommodate every character's skill set - sometimes people are just out of their element, and have to find other ways to help (aiding another character's skill, attempting Easy checks using less developed skills, etc).However, there's a risk of factoring in player skill to these sort of things as a general rule (as a house rule, it's great - knock yourself out).  As has been pointed out time and again, not everyone plays D&D for the roleplay, and not every player can (or wants to) play out an diplomatic encounter.  The game has to be able to handle all types of players.  If you want more player input during a challenge, I'd say feel free to give out bonuses for good roleplay, or require an explanation of how a skill is being applied before it can be rolled.</blockquote>

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