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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 66379" data-attributes="member: 2205">Multi-classing gets me abilities that I'm not interested in.  Like Uncanny Evasion, Ranger spell-casting and Favored enemy.  That's no solution at all, as it doesn't build my concept very well.Of course that's what I'm doing.  I said as much in my first post here.  Of course, the spell-list, and the favored enemy are important aspects of the ranger that contribute to his balance as a character class.  By abandoning them, I should be able to swap out another ability that fits my concept better.  The question, which you haven't even addressed, is the loss of spells, and possibly of favored enemy, a fair trade-off for that loss?I'll check out your concept.  I, like you, want to keep the concept low-magic: not because the setting is going to be low magic (going to be Iron Kingdoms, as I understand it from the DM) but because my concept is low magic and the spells are not part of it.  Sneak attack may be extraordinarily powerful with a higher BAB: I don't know.  I've played mid-level rogues with decent BAB and haven't found that sneak attack is that incredible, so maybe I'm not as cautious as many of you here on the thread of the supposed abuses that may entail.I did also look at the Scoundrel and Wanderer classes from Star Wars and Wheel of Time respectively.  Both of them have a much later and slower sneak attack progression, not starting until 5th level and only ever getting as high as +4d6.  However, they have a number of other class abilities to balance them out.  For that matter, the rogue has a number of other class abilities which I don't think fit my concept that well either, so I think some allowances need to be made for that as well.  I did suggest a slower sneak attack bonus progression, but I still think that somewhere between the rogues +10d6 and the Wanderer/Scoundrel's +4d6 is fair given the other abilities I'm giving up.  I still think giving up the spell-casting alone is fairly significant to lowering the power-level of the Ranger (which is generally considered a relatively weak class anyway) and merits an ability that is actually useful.  I'm lucky in that it also fits my concept to have sneak attack of some form.Thanks, that might be an option.  I don't certainly don't recall that from Oriental Adventures though.  Is that in the Rokugan campaign setting?Thanks, that might be an option.  I don't own FRCS so I didn't know about that feat.Actually, we're starting at 2nd level, so I could get the same feats I need from a fighter (I actually already rolled one up, but I'm still not happy with the idea, as it gives me proficiencies that I don't need, like armor and such instead of some others that I think makes quite a bit of sense, such as the Ranger skill list and some outdoorsy flavor.)  I have not looked at the modified classes in the PHB -- in fact, I had completely forgotten they existed.  Is that at the end of the classes chapter?Oh, and the duelist prestige class probably won't do much for me.  If I recall, that is designed for fighters that use finesse-able weapons.  As I want to be a two-bladed sword duelist, it won't help me at all with my weapon of choice.</blockquote>

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