Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
CustServ on "What is 'an attack'?"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4356342" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>No.</p><p></p><p>Wall of Fire is an attack (a Wizard Attack Level 9 to be precise). If it targets the Paladin, the enemy is ok. If it does not, he take Divine Challenge damage.</p><p></p><p>The Paladin is included as a target if he is placed into the Area of Effect of the Attack. Page 271:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Any attack that has an area that includes the Paladin is an attack that targets him and nullifies the damage of Divine Challenge.</p><p></p><p>This seems crystal clear. Is there a rule that would imply that it works differently?</p><p></p><p></p><p>The enemy could also cast Wall of Fog, with or without the Paladin being in the area, and would not take the Divine Challenge damage since Wall of Fog is not an attack (regardless of the "Attack Type" terminology).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yup, Evasion currently reads that it negates the damage of the Effect portion of an attack because it negates the damage of a missed Attack.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Having said that this is what is written, I do not think that this was the intent. It might have been, but I think it is just bad editing.</p><p></p><p>I think RAI here is that the character takes no damage from the Miss part of the Attack. He still takes damage from the Effect part of the attack.</p><p></p><p>I view Hit as "only hit targets take this portion", Miss as "only missed targets take this portion", and Effect as "everyone takes this portion".</p><p></p><p>Now, the designers might come out and state that Evasion does indeed do that (i.e. they mean the entire Attack as opposed to just the Miss portion). If they meant it that way, they should have stated it more clear and should clarify it in the FAQ or errata.</p><p></p><p>If they meant it like I think they did, they should have stated "the damage portion of the Miss part of the attack is negated" or some such, and again should clarify it in the FAQ or errata.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In any case, Evasion currently reads that it negates the damage of the Effect because it negates the damage of the attack. So, that is the rule until WotC clarifies differently.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The phrase Attack Type of Area is semantical silliness. The designers goofed here.</p><p></p><p>Sure, the book literally states Attack Type Area. The designers did not realize that they accidentally opened a can of worms with this because the following sentence is not enough to convince everyone:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This sentence is enough to show designer intent. Attack Type is just a term and a poor one at that and does not have anything to do with whether a power is an attack, nor does it turn utility powers into attack powers.</p><p></p><p>The term "Attack Type" should have never been used. It should have been called "Primary Action Type" or something else since not all "Attack Types" are attacks. Many of them are, but since all of them are not, the term is inferior and misleading. If the designers would have called it "Primary Action Type" (or something) instead of "Attack Type", we would not be having this portion of this discussion right now.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, the CustServ guy was literally correct that Wall of Fog is "an Attack Type Area" power. But, it is not an attack (as you say).</p><p></p><p>And in the case of calling CustServ, I suspect we are wanting a RAI answer, not a RAW one.</p><p></p><p>What good is a RAW answer from CustServ. We can literally misinterpret RAW for ourselves. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 4356342, member: 2011"] No. Wall of Fire is an attack (a Wizard Attack Level 9 to be precise). If it targets the Paladin, the enemy is ok. If it does not, he take Divine Challenge damage. The Paladin is included as a target if he is placed into the Area of Effect of the Attack. Page 271: Any attack that has an area that includes the Paladin is an attack that targets him and nullifies the damage of Divine Challenge. This seems crystal clear. Is there a rule that would imply that it works differently? The enemy could also cast Wall of Fog, with or without the Paladin being in the area, and would not take the Divine Challenge damage since Wall of Fog is not an attack (regardless of the "Attack Type" terminology). Yup, Evasion currently reads that it negates the damage of the Effect portion of an attack because it negates the damage of a missed Attack. Having said that this is what is written, I do not think that this was the intent. It might have been, but I think it is just bad editing. I think RAI here is that the character takes no damage from the Miss part of the Attack. He still takes damage from the Effect part of the attack. I view Hit as "only hit targets take this portion", Miss as "only missed targets take this portion", and Effect as "everyone takes this portion". Now, the designers might come out and state that Evasion does indeed do that (i.e. they mean the entire Attack as opposed to just the Miss portion). If they meant it that way, they should have stated it more clear and should clarify it in the FAQ or errata. If they meant it like I think they did, they should have stated "the damage portion of the Miss part of the attack is negated" or some such, and again should clarify it in the FAQ or errata. In any case, Evasion currently reads that it negates the damage of the Effect because it negates the damage of the attack. So, that is the rule until WotC clarifies differently. The phrase Attack Type of Area is semantical silliness. The designers goofed here. Sure, the book literally states Attack Type Area. The designers did not realize that they accidentally opened a can of worms with this because the following sentence is not enough to convince everyone: This sentence is enough to show designer intent. Attack Type is just a term and a poor one at that and does not have anything to do with whether a power is an attack, nor does it turn utility powers into attack powers. The term "Attack Type" should have never been used. It should have been called "Primary Action Type" or something else since not all "Attack Types" are attacks. Many of them are, but since all of them are not, the term is inferior and misleading. If the designers would have called it "Primary Action Type" (or something) instead of "Attack Type", we would not be having this portion of this discussion right now. Yes, the CustServ guy was literally correct that Wall of Fog is "an Attack Type Area" power. But, it is not an attack (as you say). And in the case of calling CustServ, I suspect we are wanting a RAI answer, not a RAW one. What good is a RAW answer from CustServ. We can literally misinterpret RAW for ourselves. ;) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
CustServ on "What is 'an attack'?"
Top