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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HellHound" data-source="post: 3634459" data-attributes="member: 3397">(Cross-Posted from CircvsMaximvs and my cyberpunk forums, View From The Edge)This is the million-dollar question when working on a CyberPunk styled RPG. To incoporate a version of cyberpsychosis or cyber-rejection or not. For those not familiar with the RPG genre, this is the game mechanic that restricts over-use of cybernetics in a character, by having cybernetic systems reduce a character's stats - in the original CyberPunk RPG, this was represented as Humanity Loss, which in turn reduced the character's Empathy stat (used for most interpersonal rolls). Shadowrun had it impact Essence instead of Empathy, which only really affects magic-wielding characters. The vast majority of RPGs in the genre have followed the lead of CyberPunk, with cybersystems dealing damage to the game's "Charisma"-like ability score.Because one of the side-purposes of newTribes is to be able to use the supplements from the game for CyberPunk, we were stuck with working with a variant of cyberpsychosis from the get-go. However, Dex and I are already both in favor of the system as presented by CyberPunk and Grimm's CyberTales. You can read Dex's late-90's commentary on the topic here: [sblock]    I've been poking through your Cyberpunk mailing list (the CPML), and wanted to add my 2cents re. people griping that the cyberpsychosis rules in CP are merely a game mechanic, and aren't realistic.    I agree with your argument that until clinical trials are held, it will be difficult to gauge what realistic effects will be had. Until then, we can extrapolate from what we have now, and I offer the following examples:    Tattoos and Body Piercing. Over the years, we've had thousands of clients get pierced or tattooed, and comments such as, "I feel so much stronger now", "I know it's just a little ring in my belly, but I feel much better about myself now" were not uncommon. And many of these people were discriminated against because of their appearance. Many of these people were marking their belonging to a certain subculture or group, and thus distinguishing themselves from other groups. Once they got one piercing or tattoo, they would come back for more saying how "addictive" they were. Whenever they had a photograph taken of them, they'd have to stick out their tongue to show their piercing or roll up their sleeve to show their ink. Others would play constantly with their tongue jewellery to the point of pissing off friends or coworkers. Some would scrimp and save every paycheck so they could get more metal, better metal, shinier metal, or more ink, brighter colours. They'd start to come into the shop more than once a week worried that their piercing was getting infected. Or come in and moan and groan about how they got fired because they had a piercing or tattoo (not because they were chronically late or lazy).    Is it just me, or does this sound like classic Egotism, Alienation, Obsession, and Paranoia? Why is it SO difficult for people to accept that knowingly changing your body changes the mind and spirit? I guess the whole Modern Primitive thang is foreign to these guys, having not experienced it, so they can't possibly understand- their thought processes are too mired in western-judeo-Xian ruts to jump out. Too bad.    Hmmm- maybe they'd appreciate looking at it from the other viewpoint- of a clicical disorder like self-mutilation. It is a psychiatric condition where people cut or harm themselves in order to make themselves feel better about their bodies, exerting control over them, or making their bodies look and feel better. What kind of special someone does it take to voluntarily cut off an arm for these same ends?    Many people who have had amputations feel as though they have lost a part of themselves when they lost a pinkie, toe, etc. Think of the effects people experience after vasectomies or hysterectomies! Flesh and bone can never TRULY be replaced by plastic and metal.    There are plenty of examples in modern psychiatry today of people who claim that their dental implants contain tracking devices, or of the government tracking us through microchips in our money. Sure, these aren't the most balanced people to begin with, but give them some good ol' edgerunner stress and environment, and you're looking at some cyberpsychosis potential.    But first and foremost, I wish people would remember that it is CYBERPUNK, and it is a GAME. Cyberpunk is the exploration of a dark future in which the clash between metal and meat is explored. And games need rules. And these rules work (with some tweaking).[/sblock]I'm using two versions of these rules to keep cybernetics in check. The primary theme of newTribes is futureshock, and the formation of smaller social groupings (tribes) in order to insulate one's self from the worst of the alienation caused by futureshock. Futureshock causes alienation, and anything that you have that makes you different from your tribe will increase this alienation. Therefore, cybernetics cause alienation, as they make you different. Further, since the newTribes environment has a lot of uncontrolled XDR strains of various bacteria, invasive cybersystems also weaken the body's protection against them, providing a second reason to avoid major implantation surgery. I'm also considering something akin to "the black shakes" from the Johnny Mnemonic movie.But the main controlling agent will remain alienation - which really helps push the concept of futureshock and alienation to the forefront of the game and of many of the decisions we'll be making while working on the extended rules set. I think the biggest rules set here will be dealing with stress. I like game systems that handle attacks and damage not just in the physical sense, but also handles social combat. I'm figuring that characters in newTribes will have a physical and a mental damage track, and while body armor and toughness will reduce physical damage, tribal status (aka friends) and mental toughness will reduce psychological damage. And we'll have alienation reduce the benefits of these defenses against psychological damage. Therefore, as a character insulates himself from physical harm through implants, he leaves his psyche more and more at risk.In d20 Future, cybersystems are restricted only in that if you have too many, you suffer a negative level. However, in OGL Cybernet, cyberware has "Self Loss" that impacts Charisma, and the loss appears to be taken almost point for point from the system from CyberPunk 2020.How would you handle it?Should it be handled?Should another mechanic be used instead to control cybernetics?</blockquote>

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