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Cypher System by Monte Cook Games: what do you think about it?
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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8814683" data-attributes="member: 7026617"><p>The problem is I think you're using an idiosyncratic definition of "simple" here. I suspect strongly that few people would consider RQ or (especially) Hero as "simple". They're just not very special-case intensive, which is not the same thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A Hand to Hand Killing Attack is a power definition in Hero. It tells you a cost per increment (a D6 of it costs 15 points in the character build budget) and mechanical behavior (Killing Attacks are rolled as-is and then multiplied by either the hit location hit in games that use that, or by a multiplier die in others, in contrast with Normal damage which is rolled as a set; the system also distinguishes between Body Damage (which is the damage that injures or kills you) and Stun damage (which can stun and knock you out). Killing attacks are more efficient at doing Body and less efficient at doing Stun).</p><p></p><p>Natively, with no other modifiers applied, all buying a HKA tells you is that you have some non-ranged Killing Attack that is modified by your Strength value (to a cap of twice the basic damage). Without other modifiers, it best represents something like a big claw. To represent other things (a sword, a set of smaller claws, a stinger) you'd apply Advantages and Limitations to get a more mechanically correct result. And of course it doesn't, per se, tell you anything about the in-world definition of what you have. There's also nothing in the system that would force you to apply addition modifiers to get that closer approximation; minor benefits and deficits are usually assumed to be rolled into that in-world definition (referred to as "special effects" within the system) but they're supposed to be pretty minor, so how much you go down the rabbit-hole of that definition is up the person purchasing it, the genre, and the group conventions.</p><p></p><p>But in use, you'll often see something like the following "War Pick: 1D6+1 HKA, AP, OAF". What that tells someone familiar with the system is that its a Hand to Hand Killing Attack, is Armor Piercing (which cuts the defenses it goes against in half), and is an Obvious, Accessible Focus (which means the source of the ability to do it is obvious, and the source can both be disarmed and potentially damaged/destroyed).</p><p></p><p>Few people would consider that "simple". But to anyone familiar with the system, having that summary I just listed in the quotation marks tells them everything they need to know about how the pick works without having to have anything more extended, or ever look up anything further. A similar thing would apply to this: "War Hammer: +1 OCV, 1D6 HKA, +1 Stun Multiple, OAF". The difference between the two weapons is that the Warhammer is more accurate (+1 OCV (Offensive Combat Value), does not have the armor piercing function, does a little less damage, but also does more Stun (+1 Stun Multiple).</p><p></p><p>This means any variations on this are largely baked into what you see on the summary; there may be a few cases of Advantages or Disadvantages you don't know what they do (largely because they're things that are rarely seen) but everything is baked into the basic construction whether its weapons, spells, other kinds of powers or basic abilities. There's no examples of "this one off thing that is used for this purpose and works in this specific way that you need to keep track of".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I already typed it now. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> If you want to suggest any further discussion we spin off into another thread after this, I'm amenable.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm more satisfied with the result, but I'll flat out tell you that if you think being called on overgeneralizing as being "nitpicking" you and I are going to have a bunch of bad interactions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 8814683, member: 7026617"] The problem is I think you're using an idiosyncratic definition of "simple" here. I suspect strongly that few people would consider RQ or (especially) Hero as "simple". They're just not very special-case intensive, which is not the same thing. A Hand to Hand Killing Attack is a power definition in Hero. It tells you a cost per increment (a D6 of it costs 15 points in the character build budget) and mechanical behavior (Killing Attacks are rolled as-is and then multiplied by either the hit location hit in games that use that, or by a multiplier die in others, in contrast with Normal damage which is rolled as a set; the system also distinguishes between Body Damage (which is the damage that injures or kills you) and Stun damage (which can stun and knock you out). Killing attacks are more efficient at doing Body and less efficient at doing Stun). Natively, with no other modifiers applied, all buying a HKA tells you is that you have some non-ranged Killing Attack that is modified by your Strength value (to a cap of twice the basic damage). Without other modifiers, it best represents something like a big claw. To represent other things (a sword, a set of smaller claws, a stinger) you'd apply Advantages and Limitations to get a more mechanically correct result. And of course it doesn't, per se, tell you anything about the in-world definition of what you have. There's also nothing in the system that would force you to apply addition modifiers to get that closer approximation; minor benefits and deficits are usually assumed to be rolled into that in-world definition (referred to as "special effects" within the system) but they're supposed to be pretty minor, so how much you go down the rabbit-hole of that definition is up the person purchasing it, the genre, and the group conventions. But in use, you'll often see something like the following "War Pick: 1D6+1 HKA, AP, OAF". What that tells someone familiar with the system is that its a Hand to Hand Killing Attack, is Armor Piercing (which cuts the defenses it goes against in half), and is an Obvious, Accessible Focus (which means the source of the ability to do it is obvious, and the source can both be disarmed and potentially damaged/destroyed). Few people would consider that "simple". But to anyone familiar with the system, having that summary I just listed in the quotation marks tells them everything they need to know about how the pick works without having to have anything more extended, or ever look up anything further. A similar thing would apply to this: "War Hammer: +1 OCV, 1D6 HKA, +1 Stun Multiple, OAF". The difference between the two weapons is that the Warhammer is more accurate (+1 OCV (Offensive Combat Value), does not have the armor piercing function, does a little less damage, but also does more Stun (+1 Stun Multiple). This means any variations on this are largely baked into what you see on the summary; there may be a few cases of Advantages or Disadvantages you don't know what they do (largely because they're things that are rarely seen) but everything is baked into the basic construction whether its weapons, spells, other kinds of powers or basic abilities. There's no examples of "this one off thing that is used for this purpose and works in this specific way that you need to keep track of". Well, I already typed it now. :) If you want to suggest any further discussion we spin off into another thread after this, I'm amenable. I'm more satisfied with the result, but I'll flat out tell you that if you think being called on overgeneralizing as being "nitpicking" you and I are going to have a bunch of bad interactions. [/QUOTE]
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