Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
D&D “Essentials” as a product line = making it less daunting to get into the game?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Beginning of the End" data-source="post: 5349800" data-attributes="member: 55271"><p></p><p></p><p>Clearly not. You can't (a) increase the number of books available and (b) triple the number of "buy this first" products on the market and achieve those goals.</p><p></p><p>New Customer Pre-Essentials(TM) is forced to look at a wall o' product and eventually figure out that they need the PHB / DMG / MM to start playing the game.</p><p></p><p>New Customer Post-Essentials(TM) is forced to look at a wall o' even more product and eventually figures out that they can buy either the PHB/DMG/MM, the Starter Set, or a combination of 2 or 3 different Essentials products to start playing the game.</p><p></p><p>Arguably the Starter Set at least represents a lower price point, but since it's actually a pay-to-preview product the Essentials line actually <em>increases</em> the cost to start playing the full game compared to the PHB/DMG/MM triumvirate. (And that's true even if you skip the Starter Set entirely. Nor does it include the full line of Essentials products.)</p><p></p><p>With that being said: WotC had certainly dug itself into something of a hole by degrading the label of "core rulebook" until it meant "everything we publish". They might have been able to re-brand the "Essentials" trademark to replace that lost utility, but if that was the goal they reallty didn't achieve it: Labeling 10 different products with a total retail cost of several hundred dollars as being "essential" and "everything you need to play" D&D doesn't look particularly effective to me.</p><p></p><p>AFAICT, the Essentials products don't solve these problems. They make them worse.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There are, IME, two kinds of players: Those who want to own the rulebook and those who don't. They will often intermix at the same table. So the OP's math seems like a fake-out to me for several reasons:</p><p></p><p>(1) Many tables feature "one set of rulebooks" (usually owned by the DM). For these groups, the cost has gone from $105 (PHB/DMG/MM) to $110 (Rules Compendium, one Heroes book, DM's Kit, Monster Vault); $130 (for both Heroes books); or even $150 (if they also bought the Starter Set).</p><p></p><p>(2) If you have a player who likes to own the rulebook (instead of just borrowing a copy from someone else), then I find it doubtful that they're going to stop with just the character creation rules. They're going to also buy a copy of the Rules Compendium. So they've gone from $25 to a $40 investment.</p><p></p><p>(3) The idea that a DM isn't going to want a full set of rulebooks -- including the character creation rules -- seems alien to me. So saying that everyone at the table is going to own one of the Heroes books except for the DM seems bogus to me. The DM is going to own both of them, which immediately cranks their costs back up.</p><p></p><p>Finally, the concept of "everyone chipping in to buy a game and try it out" is an inherently geeky concept. And, IME, even most geeks don't do it.</p><p></p><p>Essentials is more confusing and more expensive.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Beginning of the End, post: 5349800, member: 55271"] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=white][/COLOR][/FONT] Clearly not. You can't (a) increase the number of books available and (b) triple the number of "buy this first" products on the market and achieve those goals. New Customer Pre-Essentials(TM) is forced to look at a wall o' product and eventually figure out that they need the PHB / DMG / MM to start playing the game. New Customer Post-Essentials(TM) is forced to look at a wall o' even more product and eventually figures out that they can buy either the PHB/DMG/MM, the Starter Set, or a combination of 2 or 3 different Essentials products to start playing the game. Arguably the Starter Set at least represents a lower price point, but since it's actually a pay-to-preview product the Essentials line actually [i]increases[/i] the cost to start playing the full game compared to the PHB/DMG/MM triumvirate. (And that's true even if you skip the Starter Set entirely. Nor does it include the full line of Essentials products.) With that being said: WotC had certainly dug itself into something of a hole by degrading the label of "core rulebook" until it meant "everything we publish". They might have been able to re-brand the "Essentials" trademark to replace that lost utility, but if that was the goal they reallty didn't achieve it: Labeling 10 different products with a total retail cost of several hundred dollars as being "essential" and "everything you need to play" D&D doesn't look particularly effective to me. AFAICT, the Essentials products don't solve these problems. They make them worse. There are, IME, two kinds of players: Those who want to own the rulebook and those who don't. They will often intermix at the same table. So the OP's math seems like a fake-out to me for several reasons: (1) Many tables feature "one set of rulebooks" (usually owned by the DM). For these groups, the cost has gone from $105 (PHB/DMG/MM) to $110 (Rules Compendium, one Heroes book, DM's Kit, Monster Vault); $130 (for both Heroes books); or even $150 (if they also bought the Starter Set). (2) If you have a player who likes to own the rulebook (instead of just borrowing a copy from someone else), then I find it doubtful that they're going to stop with just the character creation rules. They're going to also buy a copy of the Rules Compendium. So they've gone from $25 to a $40 investment. (3) The idea that a DM isn't going to want a full set of rulebooks -- including the character creation rules -- seems alien to me. So saying that everyone at the table is going to own one of the Heroes books except for the DM seems bogus to me. The DM is going to own both of them, which immediately cranks their costs back up. Finally, the concept of "everyone chipping in to buy a game and try it out" is an inherently geeky concept. And, IME, even most geeks don't do it. Essentials is more confusing and more expensive. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
D&D “Essentials” as a product line = making it less daunting to get into the game?
Top