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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 5054544" data-attributes="member: 23619">That's a bit incorrect. As one gains levels and the XP required increases, so too do the XP awards. Going strictly by the books, at each level, characters earn roughly enough XP to advance a level after about 12-13 encounters as long as they are facing roughly the appropriate CR for their level. So, proportionately, a 1st level character earns the same amount of XP for a CR 1 encounter that a 10th level character earns for a CR 10 encounter.The fluffy reason the Ogre would pay so much to gain a level of wizard is because it is a stupid, uneducated, illiterate beast. First it would have to learn to read, then comprehend abstract concepts, spellcasting, etc. It would have about the same difficulty learning a level of Fighter because Ogres are bestial, instinctive fighters without formalized, disciplined training. They are the "Hulk smash!" of combat, where the Fighter is the skilled warrior--the Caramons and Aragorns of the world.Why? A Human Fighter 1/Monk 1 is going to have the same amount of feats (and pay the same XP) as your gestalt Fighter/Monk 1 Human, except your guy won't have the feats. Why not have all the feats they are due, especially if you are insisting they pay full price for them. Maybe its because its late at night, but I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Why couldn't a 10th level gestalt be Rogue 10/Fighter 5-Assassin 5? (I know I argued against this in my previous post, but I'm largely playing devil's advocate here). Once you get to Rogue 5/Fighter 5, the next level the Rogue class takes on Assassin and the Fighter multiclasses into Rogue. Advance 5 more levels and you have Rogue 10/Fighter 5-Assassin 5. Not sure how anything is stopped and 'tons' of feats is a bit of exaggeration. A gestalt Human Fighter/Monk 1 would have 4 feats (level, race, class and class), while a non-human would have 3--the same as a single class human, non-gestalt fighter at 1st level. That's hardly overpowering. And seeing as how the monk gains only 2 more bonus feats over the next 5 levels, I'm not seeing where this is too much, tons, or why a fighter would have to take other levels to get all his feats.Those points are almost irrelevant. A 15 Fighter/Wizard gestalt is going to trounce a 20 Fighter or Wizard every time. Access to 9th level spells is nice, but the gestalt will have access to 8th, plus crazy fighting abilities whether he gets in close or remains at range--and vice versa; the 20 Fighter maybe able to outfight the gestalt when it comes to # of attacks, but the gestalt has the spellcasting of a 15th wizard (8th level spells), so that single class is in deep crap! And at those levels, the only thing of importance is the extra attack for a BAB of +16. AC at those levels is going to be pitifully easy to hit. And the loss of the extra attack is negated by a Fighter/Monk gestalt that gets an additional 2 attacks (with NO penalty) on a flurry. And a BAB of 11 is irrelevant when the first attack is going to pretty much hit anyway, and will definitely hit if the target is flat footed. Devils advocate here, so I'm taking both sides. Personally, I think gestalt is best left alone. It dual and multiclass options are best left to 1e and 2e because 3e is so level/stat centric there is no way to allow for it fairly. And in earlier editions, there were NO special abilities at every level or even every few levels. That's a thing of 3e which turns gestalting on its ear. There is just no way to control it and if you allow one to do it, you have to allow others to do it too. And I mean everyone. That means that all level 1 Commoners are now Commoner/Expert 1 or Commoner/Adept or Commoner/Warrior and that throws the economy out of whack since more skills means more marketability as well as the ability to skillfully fight back against an oppressor or a lord that wants them 'in their place'. And you haven't even addressed the possibility of what if a gestalt is done gestalting? What if he wants to go single class? What's to stop him? What if the Rogue/Fighter is tired of doing that and just stops all Rogue related activity? Or what if someone single class wants to start gestalting? What's to stop them, aside from DM say-so?BAB is irrelevant at higher levels for the most part, so no big sacrifice there. Hit points? Nearly the same. A gestalt that rolls good is going to have better HP than a single class that rolls poorly. And a poorly rolled gestalt is still going to be better off than a single class of his same non-gestalt level. Again, no real disadvantage, especially when they have the full abilities of a second class to fall back on. Can you even think of a monster (not counting the Tarrasque) off the top of your head that could challenge a Fighter/Rogue or Fighter/Monk 15 gestalt? Especially when that character has the complete Two Weapon Fighting line of feats at their disposal; 3 primary attacks, 3 off hand attacks, possible flurry for 2 more attacks, possible 8d6 sneak attack damage for EACH attack, along with a slew of feats and special abilities to work with. You could easily have a character doing over 200hp damage per round. And it could be even worse if the Fighter Rogue takes a level of Monk or Barbarian and 14 instead of 15 levels of Fighter. It would be much easier for you to work with your player's character build than to open the can of gestalting worms you are considering. Bard can qualify for Duellist after 8 levels, or 7 if they split between Bard/Fighter, or by 6th Fighter if they take a feat that gives lets them make a cross class skill into a class skill. Or you could just lower the BAB requirement for Duellists, maybe allow a feat to reduce the BAB requirement. Honestly, you're not going to be hurting the game any by allowing anyone to take Duellist at 5th or 6th level regardless of the requirements.</blockquote>

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