Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 9469135" data-attributes="member: 6796468">The issue is that it's an important narrative element of a character being moved from level 1 to level 3.This isn't like a Fighter deciding what sort of Training they want to pursue. This entity is the -SOURCE- of the Warlock's power. The thing they make a deal with at level 1. Right out of the gate this narrative conceit should apply to shape the character's existence.Moving it to level 3 turns level 1 &quot;Warlocks&quot; into &quot;Cultists&quot;. Generic AF servants of &quot;Something&quot;.It's the same issue with Sorcerers, honestly. Clerics, too. And Paladins. Wizards not so much because even if their specialization of spell school is at level 3, they're still the &quot;Spellbook Casters&quot; at level 1.EVERY Warlock is now &quot;Mysterious Whisper&quot;EVERY Sorcerer is now &quot;Where's this Magic Coming From?&quot;EVERY Cleric is now a &quot;Religious Initiate&quot;EVERY Paladin is now someone who prays to cast spells, fights, cures with a touch, and later on eventually gets around to swearing an oath of some kind to some ideal, maybe. Who knows. They might just never do that part.Hell, they might wind up &quot;Swearing an Oath&quot; to a magic school for Wizards, eventually. After all: Every class gets their archetype at 3 and cross-class archetypes are going to be a thing! Who cares if they're channeling divinity or praying, it's -basically- the same as wizardry, right?Yeah. It's also a REALLY DUMB DESIGN CHOICE for Paladins, too.Pretty much, yeah! Or something less drastic like Oath of the Ancients or Oath of Loyalty or Oath of Something Else that isn't a complete alignment shift, sure.I have a titanic &quot;Meh&quot; over your statement of other people's character concepts being &quot;Weak&quot;. This is a game children play. The point isn't &quot;This is always going to happen&quot; it's &quot;This is totally a thing that can happen which shows the inherent weakness of shifting the pact and the patron 3 levels apart&quot;Yeah! And so is the patron just not being a thing. SO POWERFUL. So important! Being able to be a really bad &quot;Mage of Strixhaven&quot; instead of having a Patron is a really good tradeoff for the design choice of the narrative!Nah. They should've made your Patron your level 1 choice instead of Invocations, moved those to 2, and used something else for the Archetype, is what I'm saying. If they DESPERATELY want to make archetypes interchangeable and all the classes gain their archetypes at level 3, Patrons shouldn't be the archetype.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Steampunkette, post: 9469135, member: 6796468"] The issue is that it's an important narrative element of a character being moved from level 1 to level 3. This isn't like a Fighter deciding what sort of Training they want to pursue. This entity is the -SOURCE- of the Warlock's power. The thing they make a deal with at level 1. Right out of the gate this narrative conceit should apply to shape the character's existence. Moving it to level 3 turns level 1 "Warlocks" into "Cultists". Generic AF servants of "Something". It's the same issue with Sorcerers, honestly. Clerics, too. And Paladins. Wizards not so much because even if their specialization of spell school is at level 3, they're still the "Spellbook Casters" at level 1. EVERY Warlock is now "Mysterious Whisper" EVERY Sorcerer is now "Where's this Magic Coming From?" EVERY Cleric is now a "Religious Initiate" EVERY Paladin is now someone who prays to cast spells, fights, cures with a touch, and later on eventually gets around to swearing an oath of some kind to some ideal, maybe. Who knows. They might just never do that part. Hell, they might wind up "Swearing an Oath" to a magic school for Wizards, eventually. After all: Every class gets their archetype at 3 and cross-class archetypes are going to be a thing! Who cares if they're channeling divinity or praying, it's -basically- the same as wizardry, right? Yeah. It's also a REALLY DUMB DESIGN CHOICE for Paladins, too. Pretty much, yeah! Or something less drastic like Oath of the Ancients or Oath of Loyalty or Oath of Something Else that isn't a complete alignment shift, sure. I have a titanic "Meh" over your statement of other people's character concepts being "Weak". This is a game children play. The point isn't "This is always going to happen" it's "This is totally a thing that can happen which shows the inherent weakness of shifting the pact and the patron 3 levels apart" Yeah! And so is the patron just not being a thing. SO POWERFUL. So important! Being able to be a really bad "Mage of Strixhaven" instead of having a Patron is a really good tradeoff for the design choice of the narrative! Nah. They should've made your Patron your level 1 choice instead of Invocations, moved those to 2, and used something else for the Archetype, is what I'm saying. If they DESPERATELY want to make archetypes interchangeable and all the classes gain their archetypes at level 3, Patrons shouldn't be the archetype. [/QUOTE]

Verification