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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 9469876" data-attributes="member: 6796468">So the homogenization of class complication rather than the homogenization of power?It would be a stronger argument if the D&D24 Warlock didn't have to choose their Invocations at level 1 instead of their patron. Instead of a list of 4 Patron choices, you get a list of 5 available and 23 that you can't pick. And those 5 available are scattered across the total 28 in alphabetical order rather than being presented by level, so you have to search through the list to find your actual options.And THEN you also pick your cantrips and spells from an even larger list.Picking Cantrips/Spells/Patron or picking Cantrips/Spells/Invocations isn't a significant categorical difference, but patron vs invocations is.Except it doesn't change the number of level 1 decision points. If someone at level 3 decides "Pact of the Blade" doesn't fit their character because it turns out Warlocks aren't that good at fighting in melee next to the party's fighter they still made that level 1 choice to pick one of the 5 available options.And may still feel stuck with their choice because of having to "Relearn their Character" or how deeply narrative they went on their Pact weapon being an important aspect of their character's identity. Like a fencing character, or 'it was my father's axe that my patron returned to me' or something similar.The choice hasn't changed in a positive manner, the potential pitfalls haven't changed, only the narrative has been split.It's definitely harder to pretend to not know who your patron is in 5e than D&D24 because of the structure of the class. But I don't think that's a flaw of the class or the design. In fact it's true to the fiction that inspired the class.The various characters of literature and media who make the "Deal with the Devil" broadly know who they're dealing with. There are exceptions, of course, with mysterious entities making the deal. But generally speaking you -know- who you're dealing with and why. And that narrative is what drives the core character identity.Splitting it off this way makes the traditional presentation into the outlier that isn't supported by the ruleset in favor of the nontraditional presentation being shown as default.It's sort of akin to moving Barbarian Rage to 3rd level. It's the defining characteristic of the concept. Could you do a story about a "Barbarian finding something to be angry about"? Sure.But it shouldn't be the default.</blockquote>

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