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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9470037" data-attributes="member: 6801228">1) Subclasses are refinements of the Class. At level 1 you pick your class, and then you get that and level 2 to figure out how you want to take it. A Feylock with their teleportation style is going to play very differently than a celestial warlock with their healing. Taking that mechanical angle and pushing it back does give newer players a chance to evaluate the class and see what their options are. 2) Level 1 dips are a bit of a menace. In that specific case of the warlock, this change is pretty darn important in preventing level 1 dips from being absolutely insane. A Level 1 2024 Warlock who could get their fiend abilities at level 1 would be able to, with a single level: learn four 1st level spells, learn two cantrips, gain a spell slot that refreshes on a short rest, gain an eldritch invocation, gain regenerating temporary hp from dropping enemies. That is A LOT from a single class dip. 2a) You also do far more damage to a playstyle concept by moving the former pact boons to 3rd level. A Pact of the Blade warlock is going to spend those first two levels relying on Eldritch Blast, then suddenly swap to fighting in melee? We saw how that worked out previously, and it wasn't good for the class. 3) It opens up narrative space, as I've said. 4) It does homogenize things a bit, and that is actually potentially important. Not only does "every class gets a refinement and more unique path at level 3" help people learn the game better, but it also gives signals to the DM. If they are playing from level 1, then they know that level 3 is going to be a big deal. They can work that into the narrative. But if they have the previous version, then some classes get it at level 1, some at level 2, and some at level 3.... and then we move into the more traditional break points of 5, 11, 17 and 20.Why do you find mechanical reasons bad for a game? Role-playing games do need to consider narrative elements, I won't deny that, but they are also games with mechanics that need to be considered. Again, prioritizing one over the other is a choice, not an objective moral game design standard.DisagreeSee, again, this is where I think you are misunderstanding. You can absolutely have the contract signed at level 0. You keep equating "pick the Fiend Subclass" to "sign the pact with a fiendish entity" but NOTHING says that has to be the case. The flavor text of the mysterious voice is for level 1 pact magic, not the class as a whole. You are taking them having some fun with the flavor text as an iron-clad rule, and it is not. You CAN do it that way, but you are not REQUIRED to do it that way.</blockquote>

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