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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 9478602" data-attributes="member: 6698278">The players can't do it in THAT DM's world.  They can go off and find another DM or one of them become a DM themselves and do whatever they want.  They will not be doing it in the DM's campaign though.And here is the thing.  I could DM 7 days a week, night and day if I wanted to do that.  I have a good reputation and I run an immersive game.  I don't shortchange my players in that regard but I absolutely live by rule 0.Again perhaps we are debating absolutes.  While I live by rule 0 absolutely, that doesn't mean I am not willing to work with players especially when it fits.   The player can suggest all sorts of ideas and I may very well take those ideas.   The point is would I allow the player to actually roleplay the conversation in game between them and their Patron?  No.  I would not.  If they said they wanted a patron like X, then I might very well say yes to that and roleplay the X that way but in game the players remain in actor stance.  And this is why to some degree I don't play D&D because they do their best to force me to treat the PC like a pawn instead.</blockquote>