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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DinoInDisguise" data-source="post: 9438792" data-attributes="member: 7045806">The theory here is one of game design. Mathematical impossibilities are an anomaly in game design. If something is impossible, why put it to the player? The answer is, with very few exceptions, you don't.Here, in your example, you have a 20 strength grappler and an 8 strength target. Simple math, assuming equal levels, says the 20 strength has an advantage of roughly +6 assuming no proficiency. This means that the 20 strength grappler is a massive favorite. If they are proficient, and the target is not, this advantage grows into very high percentages - depending on the level.The alternative is one such as PF2's math, where bonuses outweigh the d20, and can create mathematical impossibility. We see this in the encounter design in PF2, where certain CR differences become deterministic. In this situation, we have strangeness. We have a dilemma.To illustrate this, a hypothetical system makes the grapple check automatic due to it's large bonuses. There the question becomes, where do you use this grapple match-up? Simply, you never do. You error to lower strength opponents to prevent the enormous feel bad of "welp sorry, you're helpless LOL." It would be akin to me putting in a saving throw players mathematically can't make. Or a creature with an AC players can't hit. Both belong on /r/dndhorrorstories and would, rightfully, get pushback from the vast majority of players.The awkwardness of impossibility in this game, seems contrary to the entire premise. It seems, on it's face, to be nothing more than realism for realism's sake, regardless of how bad the game play loop ends up being.Maybe I'm wrong and it's controversial to believe that any choice that is a huge middle finger to a player is not actually a choice. Or maybe, we could use rules that don't reduce choice and actively promote antagonism. And while we are at it, we could leave the extreme corner cases where impossibility is desired to the DM, and not codified in the rules.</blockquote>

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