Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9441885" data-attributes="member: 6801228">But how are you defining "stronger"? That's the real noodly part of this. A multi-classed Barbarian/Champion Fighter with GWM and PAM could potentially output: 3d10+1d6+1d4+70 damage, with a crit chance of 19-20 with advantage on every attack. Now, that same character is going to be dealing 3d10+1d6+1d4+38, with the crit chance and advantage on all attacks. That isn't stronger. But, their minimum damage is 20, where the minimum damage of the old build was 0. That is... stronger, technically, but it isn't pushing it beyond what the old version could do. One of the big take aways I've been seeing from reviewers is that melee combat is out-stripping ranged combat, which used to be the reverse, but that also the highest spikes of damage from the old combos are much smaller in both cases. Are fighter's better at skills? Absolutely 100%. Is indomitable better? Absolutely 100%... but does that make power creep? Fighter's used to suck so hard at skills that many people considered it a joke. Now they can meaningfully contribute even on very difficult tests. Indomitable can have them succeed a single save, which is awesome, but also doesn't raise their theoritical power, because in theory they could have passed that save anyways with a high enough roll. So, it gets to be a complicated question of what you mean by strength. And if you want to say "versatility is strength" then any party with a wizard still outstrips the fighter by a mile, even the fighter now is more versatile and LESS behind the caster. So power creep for the game as a whole would not be obvious. Compatible doesn't mean perfectly balanced. It means compatible. You also completely missed my entire point by trying to make it about the old rules. That wasn't the point I was making to Lanefan. Who cares if they are? Seriously. Are we weeping over the fact that True Strike (which was never used) is now going to be used? Or that the 4 Elements Monk (which was garbage) is now really good? Or that resistance (which had no purpose) is now a viable option?There was not a single expectation by anyone that just because the old rules were compatible that nothing would change in the new rules. Obviously things would change and be improved. THat was the entire point. Also, the old subclasses can use the new class rules. And if you are going to argue about them being weaker than the new subclasses... 2014 Wild Sorcerer looks over at the Aberrant Mind Sorcerer and Clockwork Soul Sorcerer from Tashas. Beast Master Ranger looks at the Gloomstalker ranger. The Purple Dragon Knight looks at the Rune Knight. Yeah, it happens. Wasn't the end of the world.</blockquote>

Verification