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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9442525" data-attributes="member: 7030563">This is not a matter of opinion, you are factually wrongIf you have up to 4 attacks a round using light dex weapons you can only use nick on one of them.  The other three if they are nick weapons have no mastery bonus at all.  If the other weapons are not nick weapons they are Vex weapons and Vex does nothing on a Ranger using Hunter's Mark at level 17+No I've heard of it, and even used it myself and MOST of the time as I said it will be a waste because you won't hit with a single attack on the enemy you cast it on.MOST of the time if you cast Hunter's Mark and do not attack on that turn you won't be able to damage the target with it next turn. The target can die, you can be either better off targeting someone else or it can be necessary to target someone else, you use an action other than attacking (most commonly a spell), you miss, you lose concentration.  The combination of those add up to more than 50% of the time (i.e. MOST of the time like I said).Most of the time in play if you use Hunter's Mark on a target with the intent to wait until the next round to attack that target you will get nothing out of it on that target.  If you disbelieve this I wonder if you even have ever played a Ranger.Also the main risk as far as the spell is concerned in "set up" is losing concentration and therefore wasting the slot/casting.  However that is not the main issue.  The main issue is the action economy and opportunity cost.  If you "set up" you will often be using a bonus action you could be using for something else, and something with an immediate payoff.They have as many options as any other character using a light-vex weapon.No I am stating a fact.  Hunter's Mark is a spell?  You didn't know this?No "terms" involved there.I am using the 2024 rules like you asked for.I am not changing them at all.  The rules changed and with that the mechanics and their abilities changed.AND YOU claimed nobody played Rangers like that.I really thought you were starting to get this.  I've told you many times now and it seemed like on the last post you were actually starting to understand.It is a bad design to have 4 class abilities based around 1 spell.Oh and also it is a bad design to limit the 2nd level expertise to the two skills they get from the Ranger class.Ok.  They are never going to make a well designed Ranger class for 2024.I can (and in the games I DM I will) homebrew it into a well designed class, but the 2024 version will still be poorly designed.I don't care if it is from the Ranger spell list.  A single-classed Ranger can get access to all of those spells (assuming you allow the 2014 version of Cause Fear in your game).Hunter's Mark is a weak 1st level spell.  It is weak on a Ranger, it is weak on a Paladin, it is weak on a fighter, it is weak on a Bard.  It is a weak spell.Hunter's Mark is not weak as a free cast, but using a slot for it - yes that is weak.  There are many better Ranger spells (although those generally are not good either).Not upcasting well means also means that in addition to being weak when you cast it using your 1st level slots, you get no benefit from upcasting it.Three out of ten deal damage, and they are all better spells than Hunter's Mark.No if they gave options for other spells it would not be a bad class design .... well except for the 2nd level expertise, which in addition to being poor design is also for some reason not consistent with the 9th level expertise.But yes if they offered 5 or 6 different Ranger spells I could use that ability on then it would be a good class design other than the expertise thing.They are not on the Ranger spell list.  I think some of them would be good for that kind of buff  - Dissonant Whispers, Healing Word, Cause Fear and Wrathful Smite specifically and having an option for any Ranger to cast those with free castings along with higher level power boosts would be good.  I have difficulty connecting the others to the Ranger thematically.Having different options for these things would improve the class design tremendously.Another option would be to have generic buffs instead of spell specific.  Like the 18th level Wizard:At 1st level pick any 1st level spell (or if you prefer any 1st level Ranger spell) and you get 2 free castingsAt 15th level pick a 1st level spell with concentration, your concentration on this spell can not be broken by damage.At 17th level, when you target a single creature with a spell that uses concentration, you have advantage attacking that creature as long as you are concentrating.At 20th level, when you target a single creature with a spell that uses concentration you do additional 1d10 damage to that creature until you lose concentration.  This damage replaces any damage done by the spell you are concentrating on.Guess what - If these were the 4 features, you could pick Hunter's Mark as your spell and it would work exactly the same if that is what you wanted to do.No it is a bad class design because it is focused on Hunter's Mark.</blockquote>

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