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Message: <blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5806197" data-attributes="member: 35909">I don't think Enveloping Cocoon is shenanigans.  You're paying an extra 5th(?) level spell slot and an extra turn just to turn a fort save or lose into a reflex save or lose.  It also iirc only works on large or smaller enemies (the super big guys are the most likely to have obscene fort saves in the first place) and totally doesn't prevent teleporting out.If given all that, having a reflex save or lose is still considered overpowered, I think the problem is with Reflex effects not being more dire in general.  There's a reason char op readily will say without doubt that reflex is the weakest save and you can largely replace its importance just by having a giant pile of hit points.</blockquote>