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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 1281309" data-attributes="member: 1757">To each his own.As for the goblin-men statement in the FotR film: IIRC, it is a misinterpretation of a phrase in TTT about the "half-orcs and goblin-men" composing a good part of Saruman's forces. I'd ignore it, as it doesn't really make sense. About the uruk-hai: It's interesting, actually. The Tolkien Bestiary has the following to say:So the uruk-hai are creations of Sauron's, not Saruman's. This actually does make sense, as they number among Sauron's forces in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and there are no explicit references to Saruman's creating them in the books, per se. I like the fact that the films show Saruman creating them, as it reinforces the tendency of Saruman to work along similar lines (but in a derivative fashion) to his master, and heightens the immediacy of the threat to the world of Men that these beings represent. As for orc vs. goblin: The distinction is largely linguistic; JRRT's notes to one of the chapters of the Book of Lost Tales, Vol. 1 clarify this. It's similar to the link between "gnome" and "[Noldor] elf". IIRC, "goblin" is actually Westron, not Dwarvish.[Edit]I'd also add that D&D orcs are more similar to uruk-hai than to JRRT's orcs; those would indeed resemble goblins more strongly. Actually, D&D orcs might be even TOUGHER than uruk-hai, since the latter, while much like Men, are not described as being stronger, per se. But there's not a bad parallel. IMC, there are two major subraces of "orc": goblins (lesser Orcs) and uruk-hai (greater orcs, a/k/a D&D orcs). However, I lower the orc Strength bonus to +2, making them basically like less wise half-orcs.[/edit]</blockquote>

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