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D&D 4E Rageblood Armor Question
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6398169" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Different scenario. You're talking about something like TS that grants multiple attacks for one power use, but those are all things that happen IN THE COURSE OF A SINGLE ACTION. Read the rules, when you take an action you have to DO something with that action, its 'Walk', 'Use a Power', 'Drop an Item', etc. So when I use a rage attack or a form attack there's an action and that action is "Use a Power", what else could it be? What power is being used? Why that's easy, the rage/form power! Again what else could it be? </p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, it does. ALL ATTACKS ARE POWER USES, ALL OF THEM. If its not something else then its MBA or RBA. The few grey areas where it wasn't spelled out perfectly still must be effectively treated as power uses (Bull Rush for instance) or you reach nonsensical rules results. If you make an attack then there IS an underlying power use. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Its still use of the power. Just because some forms and rages use the secondary effect block style doesn't really change anything. This is emphasized by the fact that WotC later reformatted ALL of these things as separate powers when they put them into the Compendium. This made it less confusing, but the concept is the same, to make an attack you MUST use a power. You are confusing 'Use a Power' with 'I am now expending power X', which is a possible CONSEQUENCE of taking an action as 'Use a Power' and selecting that power. However in the case of secondary powers 'usage' is simply not standard. All powers don't need to be daily/encounter/at-will, some are special use rates, like form powers which can be used once within the context of the form. This is simply a place where a specific rule was created to accomplish a result which the general rules didn't cover already.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, this is not necessarily true. There are secondary attacks that are written as later actions. Its hard to support the 'not a power use' argument there.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're beating on a dead horse here. Nobody ever said they are the same thing. However ALL ATTACKS are derived from a power, and all actions that result in an attack are Use a Power action. Its just true. This is a subtle point but you should really understand it. Nobody is saying that an action can't use a power that IMMEDIATELY causes multiple attacks (primary, secondary, whatever), but when an effect is left as something that the player can invoke later on with a further action (usually these are reactions/interrupts, but not always) then one can legitimately call it a use and in fact if you don't you run into some very strange rules issues.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 6398169, member: 82106"] Different scenario. You're talking about something like TS that grants multiple attacks for one power use, but those are all things that happen IN THE COURSE OF A SINGLE ACTION. Read the rules, when you take an action you have to DO something with that action, its 'Walk', 'Use a Power', 'Drop an Item', etc. So when I use a rage attack or a form attack there's an action and that action is "Use a Power", what else could it be? What power is being used? Why that's easy, the rage/form power! Again what else could it be? Yes, it does. ALL ATTACKS ARE POWER USES, ALL OF THEM. If its not something else then its MBA or RBA. The few grey areas where it wasn't spelled out perfectly still must be effectively treated as power uses (Bull Rush for instance) or you reach nonsensical rules results. If you make an attack then there IS an underlying power use. Its still use of the power. Just because some forms and rages use the secondary effect block style doesn't really change anything. This is emphasized by the fact that WotC later reformatted ALL of these things as separate powers when they put them into the Compendium. This made it less confusing, but the concept is the same, to make an attack you MUST use a power. You are confusing 'Use a Power' with 'I am now expending power X', which is a possible CONSEQUENCE of taking an action as 'Use a Power' and selecting that power. However in the case of secondary powers 'usage' is simply not standard. All powers don't need to be daily/encounter/at-will, some are special use rates, like form powers which can be used once within the context of the form. This is simply a place where a specific rule was created to accomplish a result which the general rules didn't cover already. Again, this is not necessarily true. There are secondary attacks that are written as later actions. Its hard to support the 'not a power use' argument there. You're beating on a dead horse here. Nobody ever said they are the same thing. However ALL ATTACKS are derived from a power, and all actions that result in an attack are Use a Power action. Its just true. This is a subtle point but you should really understand it. Nobody is saying that an action can't use a power that IMMEDIATELY causes multiple attacks (primary, secondary, whatever), but when an effect is left as something that the player can invoke later on with a further action (usually these are reactions/interrupts, but not always) then one can legitimately call it a use and in fact if you don't you run into some very strange rules issues. [/QUOTE]
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