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Message: <blockquote data-quote="fluffybunbunkittens" data-source="post: 9460780" data-attributes="member: 7037492">As a counter-argument, you want to hit lv5 mainly for Extra Attack... but Nick gets you that as early as lv2!Classes with lv1 damage riders to go with Nick are Fighter (TWF style) and Rogue (sneak attack, skills)TWF style is only going to benefit the one Nick attack (eventually +5), while sneak attack is (conditional) +3.5.I'm going to pick the Rogue, just because the extra skills feel so nice for the unskilled lump that is the Monk.brief combat comparisonMonk1/Rogue1 (with daggers) vs Monk2Rogue Monk doesn't have Ki abilities yet, but is a goddamn terror with 3 attacks + sneak attackRogue Monk wins, as they out-damage Flurry of Blows every turn, for free (no Ki Dodge, though)Monk2/Rogue1 vs Monk3pure Monk gets Deflect Attacks omgRogue Monk still has the edge on free damage, but subclasses even that out if they spend Kipure Monk wins purely through having tons more survivability from DeflectMonk3/Rogue1 vs Monk4Rogue Monk catches up on features, while pure monk improves everything by raising their stat(s)Rogue Monk still maintains the edge on damagethis is an even level if pure Monk picks up Grappler as their feat (or gets +1 in both Dex and Wis)Monk4/Rogue1 vs Monk5pure monk gets Extra Attack, unarmed die increase, and Stunning Strikepure monk wins hard, as now they have the same number of attacks, but the attacks are just betterlv6+Monk stops getting game-changing new features every levelRogue Monk is back on top, as now they will mostly just be 1 Ki behind, but get an extra d8+d6 attackSo, who is better basically alternates by level, but in the end, Rogue Monk gets a free attack + extra skill + Expertises at an increasingly lower cost. And it's mainly the skill access that makes me a big cheerleader for the MonkX/Rogue1 dip, as that either opens up the playing ground in what you can be capable of (especially in combination with tool proficiencies giving you advantage where appliciable), or lets you become the super-ninja by sticking to your Stealth/Perception/SleightOfHand strengths. No, climbing walls is not one of those strengths (until suddenly at lv9 you can run up them).But hold on! What if the pure Monk picks up Weapon Master as the feat? Then they are getting an extra Nick attack, yes, but it has no riders - it's just your base unarmed die in damage, which isn't exactly impressive (unless you somehow get a Flametongue dagger, I guess). One level is also much less of a cost than spending a feat that you only get per 4 levels.</blockquote>

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