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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 6394572" data-attributes="member: 15700">I think the big disconnect here is illustrated by the above paragraph.  The DM does not cooperate or punish players when he or she sets DCs (or encounters, or whatever else).  The DM does these things (or should) based on what makes sense, regardless of what the PCs do.  I.e., if a particular check is hard, it's going to have a hard DC value.  The particular level of the PCs, or their prof bonuses, or whether or not that check/encounter is hard for them isn't relevant.  The challenges are there to exist in the game world and adhere to the rules of the game.In order for the scouting to be successful, it doesn't require cooperation of the DM at all.  It only requires the DM to be consistent within the world.  There is a reason the DM was originally called the referee.  It's just like a sports game.  A team doesn't need the referees to give them favors and change things to benefit them in order for the team to win.  The team just needs to beat the other team, and ideally the referees are impartial, only enforcing objective rules.  Just like a DM should be.*edit*  to add to this and put it in a gaming context of why it's important, what it does is create a world where it sends the message to players that the game world doesn't cater to them, but exists independent of them.  Take a DC 25 locked door.  The DM isn't punishing a low level group of PCs by having the DC that high.  The DC is that high because it's a very hard lock meant to keep most people out.  It's that level of a DC regardless if it's a very hard or easy challenge for the particular party.  If the PCs want in, they need to find another way (get a key, break it down, gain experience and come back, etc).  Same with encounters.  If there is a clan of ogres in the hills, it's not the DM punishing the players if their group of level 1 PCs decide to go exploring up there anyway and get killed.  The opposite is also true.  If the group of level 20 PCs decide to go into the woods where there is a clan of goblins living, it's not the DM being unfair to change those goblins to something more level appropriate.  The goblins have always lived there.  If the PCs didn't want such an easy encounter, perhaps they should have gone somewhere else.  Point is, players make the choice, the DM just enforces the rules and runs the world.</blockquote>

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