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<blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 9100147" data-attributes="member: 83242"><p>I not sure what you are claiming is documented. Can you clarify? Are you talking about CR or encounter building? They are not the same thing (though we often use them interchangeably). I'm not even sure what I said, but I was talking about encounter building. The guidelines work for me, when I was interested in using them. I quickly discovered I didn't have to use them so I stopped about a year or so into 5e.</p><p></p><p>I hear this a lot, just like heard the same complaint (bags of hit points) with 4e monsters (particularly solos) on the old WotC 4e boards. Not sure you were a part of those boards during the 4e days or not, but I lot of the complaints were very similar: too many hit points, no threat, lack of interesting things (spells). It is eerily familiar. I didn't agree with that assessment in 4e and I don't agree with it in 5e. </p><p></p><p>What has not been your experience. That PF2 monsters are better are not as interesting as 5e legendary monsters (in general). I guess I believe you, I can just tell you that was my experience. Though I haven't messed around with PF2 in a long time, my group didn't like it.</p><p></p><p>I like the 5e tools and find them easy to use. I feel like the take a little more work than 4e, but they can produce more interesting results IMO. That is one of the things that I am concerned about in the 2024 DMG. I like the monster building rules and worry they are going to mess it up!</p><p></p><p>Now 4e had some easy to use tables, but the 4e DMG gave no guidance on how to make powers (IIRC), just gave you the to hit and damage ranges. It also didn't give you guidance on how conditions and forced movement should affect that damage. It also didn't give you a monster's DPR, just and attack's damage. I found both of these very frustrating. Making powers for 4e monsters started to wear me down at the end of its run. Not to mention the damage tables were awful and I had to come up with my own (they are even available for download here on EnWolrd).</p><p></p><p>I want to point out, again, I am a fan of 4e. I think it is the best designed version of D&D. It is the game the brought me and my group back to playing. That doesn't mean I can't see its cracks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dave2008, post: 9100147, member: 83242"] I not sure what you are claiming is documented. Can you clarify? Are you talking about CR or encounter building? They are not the same thing (though we often use them interchangeably). I'm not even sure what I said, but I was talking about encounter building. The guidelines work for me, when I was interested in using them. I quickly discovered I didn't have to use them so I stopped about a year or so into 5e. I hear this a lot, just like heard the same complaint (bags of hit points) with 4e monsters (particularly solos) on the old WotC 4e boards. Not sure you were a part of those boards during the 4e days or not, but I lot of the complaints were very similar: too many hit points, no threat, lack of interesting things (spells). It is eerily familiar. I didn't agree with that assessment in 4e and I don't agree with it in 5e. What has not been your experience. That PF2 monsters are better are not as interesting as 5e legendary monsters (in general). I guess I believe you, I can just tell you that was my experience. Though I haven't messed around with PF2 in a long time, my group didn't like it. I like the 5e tools and find them easy to use. I feel like the take a little more work than 4e, but they can produce more interesting results IMO. That is one of the things that I am concerned about in the 2024 DMG. I like the monster building rules and worry they are going to mess it up! Now 4e had some easy to use tables, but the 4e DMG gave no guidance on how to make powers (IIRC), just gave you the to hit and damage ranges. It also didn't give you guidance on how conditions and forced movement should affect that damage. It also didn't give you a monster's DPR, just and attack's damage. I found both of these very frustrating. Making powers for 4e monsters started to wear me down at the end of its run. Not to mention the damage tables were awful and I had to come up with my own (they are even available for download here on EnWolrd). I want to point out, again, I am a fan of 4e. I think it is the best designed version of D&D. It is the game the brought me and my group back to playing. That doesn't mean I can't see its cracks. [/QUOTE]
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