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D&D 5th Edition!!! (WITH POLL!!!)
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5585109" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Long combat time hasn't been around since OD&D. It's a recent development. The fact that it's such an outlier speaks to one of two things: that it's adapted for a new problem in the environment (a customer base that wants hour long slogfests), or that it's a consequence of new evolutions (such as increased combat balance). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, that's not it at all. That's not how <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution" target="_blank">evolution </a>works. It's not an objective improvement, it's an adaptation to a new environment. Crocodiles haven't had to evolve because they're already superbly adapted. They do what they do better than almost anything else could do it. 1e hasn't had to change for those who play it because it's already perfect for those who play it. 4e has changed a lot -- it's the most recent evolution. Some elements will work, some will not. </p><p></p><p>Just because 4e has more changes doesn't mean it's objectively better, but it DOES mean that some good new adaptations have come along that have been preserved (say, ditching attack matrices for a flat bonus to hit, or using one XP chart) that the original model doesn't have. </p><p></p><p>That's what I'm interested in preserving when I say "use 4e as the baseline to move forward, not backward." I don't want to give up the good things that have lasted through 2 or 3 editions just because some things don't work so well. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Evolution is just a change. It is only better in a particular time and place (4e probably is better than any other editions in the particular time and place of some players' current tables). The benefit is that really bad ideas get weeded out over time, and really good ideas are kept. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If she doesn't, she's gonna have a lot of angry 4e grognards talking about how it was awesome back in the day of afternoon-long combats and shardmind battleminds, because for a particular time and place, 4e will be as perfect as any other edition. </p><p></p><p>I'm not arguing that recent = better, I'm arguing that recent = "more developed," which means more chaos, more ideas, more mutations, more chances for interesting new things to come along and be preserved, less chance for bad old things to continue to be a problem.</p><p></p><p>Crocodiles don't need to be warmblooded. 1e doesn't need a skill system. But that doesn't mean it's not a good evolution, just because the skill system also came with...I dunno...rampant half-templates.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 5585109, member: 2067"] Long combat time hasn't been around since OD&D. It's a recent development. The fact that it's such an outlier speaks to one of two things: that it's adapted for a new problem in the environment (a customer base that wants hour long slogfests), or that it's a consequence of new evolutions (such as increased combat balance). No, that's not it at all. That's not how [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution"]evolution [/URL]works. It's not an objective improvement, it's an adaptation to a new environment. Crocodiles haven't had to evolve because they're already superbly adapted. They do what they do better than almost anything else could do it. 1e hasn't had to change for those who play it because it's already perfect for those who play it. 4e has changed a lot -- it's the most recent evolution. Some elements will work, some will not. Just because 4e has more changes doesn't mean it's objectively better, but it DOES mean that some good new adaptations have come along that have been preserved (say, ditching attack matrices for a flat bonus to hit, or using one XP chart) that the original model doesn't have. That's what I'm interested in preserving when I say "use 4e as the baseline to move forward, not backward." I don't want to give up the good things that have lasted through 2 or 3 editions just because some things don't work so well. Evolution is just a change. It is only better in a particular time and place (4e probably is better than any other editions in the particular time and place of some players' current tables). The benefit is that really bad ideas get weeded out over time, and really good ideas are kept. If she doesn't, she's gonna have a lot of angry 4e grognards talking about how it was awesome back in the day of afternoon-long combats and shardmind battleminds, because for a particular time and place, 4e will be as perfect as any other edition. I'm not arguing that recent = better, I'm arguing that recent = "more developed," which means more chaos, more ideas, more mutations, more chances for interesting new things to come along and be preserved, less chance for bad old things to continue to be a problem. Crocodiles don't need to be warmblooded. 1e doesn't need a skill system. But that doesn't mean it's not a good evolution, just because the skill system also came with...I dunno...rampant half-templates. [/QUOTE]
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