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D&D 6th edition - What do you want to see?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7792550" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>And which was 95% likely to have been made up in the first place by someone with just as much experience in these things as you.</p><p></p><p>This last sentence is an interesting statement and worth a longer look, as by extension you're saying that an unstructured or even partly-structured game cannot be defied as a game at all. I rather suspect you'll hit a wall of disagrement on this one. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>A game can be a game with only the most minimal of 'structure' behind it.</p><p></p><p>Let me guess - you never played or DMed 0e or 1e, did you. </p><p></p><p>In those editions, kitbashing the rules was an accepted (and sometimes necessary!) part of the DM's job: you were to some extent expected to look under the hood and figure out how it ran, and then both discouraged from* and encouraged to* tinker with the engine. 5e has to some extent** returned to that philosophy.</p><p></p><p>* - Gygax manages to do both, each in multiple places, in the 1e DMG.</p><p>** - but, sadly, nowhere near as much as was suggested during playtest.</p><p></p><p>Put another way, the game provides the framework - and it's not a bad one, all things considered - but it's on you to then provide the consistency and predictability to your players in the manner in which you would like to see it.</p><p></p><p>And as for being bad at game design: with rare exceptions people are bad at anything before they do much of it. Only by trial and error and practice do they become less bad, and in some cases even halfway good...and even the professionals aren't above making some real facepalm-worthy design decisions - look no further than this forum and its constant stream of threads either complaining about a rule or proposing ideas to fix one.</p><p></p><p>And there's a reason for that: 5e tries (at least sort-of) to downplay player-side crunch mechanics in favour of giving ideas on how something can be done in character. And the PH is, remember, first and foremost for players.</p><p></p><p>Now if you want to blame something for not giving more specifics, blame the DMG; as that's where the DM guidance should in theory be found.</p><p></p><p>Conversely, 5e (and 0e-1e) leave you-as-player free to think like your character and let the DM worry about the mechanics while at the table, where 3e (and 4e) instead keep you-as-player thinking about meta-mechanics all the time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7792550, member: 29398"] And which was 95% likely to have been made up in the first place by someone with just as much experience in these things as you. This last sentence is an interesting statement and worth a longer look, as by extension you're saying that an unstructured or even partly-structured game cannot be defied as a game at all. I rather suspect you'll hit a wall of disagrement on this one. :) A game can be a game with only the most minimal of 'structure' behind it. Let me guess - you never played or DMed 0e or 1e, did you. In those editions, kitbashing the rules was an accepted (and sometimes necessary!) part of the DM's job: you were to some extent expected to look under the hood and figure out how it ran, and then both discouraged from* and encouraged to* tinker with the engine. 5e has to some extent** returned to that philosophy. * - Gygax manages to do both, each in multiple places, in the 1e DMG. ** - but, sadly, nowhere near as much as was suggested during playtest. Put another way, the game provides the framework - and it's not a bad one, all things considered - but it's on you to then provide the consistency and predictability to your players in the manner in which you would like to see it. And as for being bad at game design: with rare exceptions people are bad at anything before they do much of it. Only by trial and error and practice do they become less bad, and in some cases even halfway good...and even the professionals aren't above making some real facepalm-worthy design decisions - look no further than this forum and its constant stream of threads either complaining about a rule or proposing ideas to fix one. And there's a reason for that: 5e tries (at least sort-of) to downplay player-side crunch mechanics in favour of giving ideas on how something can be done in character. And the PH is, remember, first and foremost for players. Now if you want to blame something for not giving more specifics, blame the DMG; as that's where the DM guidance should in theory be found. Conversely, 5e (and 0e-1e) leave you-as-player free to think like your character and let the DM worry about the mechanics while at the table, where 3e (and 4e) instead keep you-as-player thinking about meta-mechanics all the time. [/QUOTE]
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